I will be away from the computer until the 27th of November. God bless as you continue to study to show thyself approved unto God.

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The 144,000 will attain to a higher state than others have attained to in other epochs.
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Tom, this is my first post here, and sadly it will be a dissagreement with this statement.

The difference between the last generation and other generations is NOT a difference in QUALITY but a difference in QUNATITY!

People have always fallen into four cagagories:

1. Those settled into the truth to serve Jesus come what may; such as Joseph, Daniel, Paul, John Wesley, maybe we can even consider Mother Tressia and Anwar Saddat in this group. But there have only been a few of these saints in each generation.

2. People who have responded to the Holy Spirit and accepted God on some level, but not in the same expirence and firmness as those in the above list.

3. People who have not yet accepted the drawing power of God's love, but that the Holy Spirit is still working on and who may convert.

4. Those who have developed characters of living for self and rejecting God's love so that they refuse to repent no matter what.

Through most of history it has been a bell curve of a few in groups 1 and 4 and most of us in groups 2 and 3.

The last generation will either be in group 1 or group 4, no one will be left in group 2 or 3.

As to living without a mediator... We need to be careful not to have the Catholic Church's defination of mediation replace the Biblical view.

The Catholics had people going to the priest to pray to the saints to pray to Mary to pray to Jesus to pray to the father for forgivness.

This was the world the reformers grew up in and they simply took this model for granted but removed the middle men and had us just go to Jesus to pray to the father for forgiveness.

Biblical mediation, such as found in Exodus 19:5-6, as well as other places in the Bible, Has Christ claiming victory before the Father, and the Godhead is through God's people trying to reach out to those who are not God's people to try to win them, or seal those he has won. In otherwords, mediation is focused on God to people in groups 2 and 3.

The last generation stands without a mediator because they have either been settled into the truth, or completely rejected the truth.

Yes, I completely agree that the Investigative Judgment is the key. Since the mid 1800s there has been an explosion of Biblical knowlege such as never before in history. Archaeology, linguististic studies, rediscoveries of the historical and cultural contexts of scripture. We have Bibles written on the third grade reading level, the Bible on tape and CD, and some books on VCR and DVD, bringing the word of God to life

Exactly!

We just have to be careful about the context we read the quote in. Too many read it in the modified Catholic view based on the modified Catholic view of hell (although we may find different details as to how this happens, they all follow the basic formula of: you face God and your life's record and either are allowed into heaven or sent to a litterally burning hell)

We need to be careful to read it with the Biblical teaching of intercession and views of hell, and definations of sin, sinful nature, and character perfection in mind. It has been noted that although Mrs. White does not mention him by name, her discriptions of the perfection we are to reach are from the writings and discriptions of John Wesley. When you study out instead of clinging to choice words, you come to see that the Bible and Mrs. White teach not a different quality of the last generation, but the quanity of those who are in the deeper exprience.

I ran out of time on the computer on the last post, but I wanted to mention that with the things we can now learn about the Bible, this deeper knowlege of the Bible can lead to deeper knowlege of the God of the Bible, and as we behold him we become changed.

I spoke of "The 144,000 will attain to a higher state than others have attained to in other epochs." You wrote of "the quanity of those who are in the deeper exprience."

I assume the "deeper experience" has to do with understanding/appreciating/making known God's character. Isn't this "deeper experience" "deeper" for the 144,000 than it was for those who have experienced it in earlier generations due to the fact that their is more light available regarding God's character than there used to be?

Living up to the light God has revealed is what constitutes the state of the saved - whether resurrected or translated. Anyone, since the beginning of time, who has lived up to the light God revealed possesses what it takes to be one of the 144,000. The fact they have already fallen asleep doesn't make them less holy or righteous or deserving than the 144,000.

I believe this touches on the main point of the conversion controversy. The moment we are converted and born again, I believe we are just as qualified as the 144,000 to enter through the gates of heaven. The difference between the thief on the cross and the 144,000 is time and circumstances - not fitness.

I agree with the principle of what you're trying to say, but sure didn't like how you put it, especially this part:

"Anyone, since the beginning of time, who has lived up to the light God revealed possesses what it takes to be one of the 144,000."

I'm too tired now to try to improve on it, but surely it's possible to put things so that Christ enters into play somewhere.

How do you look at old threads? I'd like to look at Stacie's question about how the blood of Jesus washes away our sins, but don't know how to find it.

Jesus, of course, put it best: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Mat 5:16.

Jesus was never afraid to refer it as our light, our good works, our righteousness. I used to wonder about this way of expressing righteousness by faith, but long ago I came to the conclusion that righteousness is reality. It's not something that God waves around in heaven, something detached from us. "For the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Rev 19:8.

It is implied that we are able to live up to the light God has revealed by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God. This implication is inherent throughout the Bible. But I agree with you that when we mortals speak about it among ourselves we should spell it out. We can never give God the credit too often.

PS - I don't know of any search option on MSDAOL.