Greetings, everyone!

In recent and past discussions on this forum and others, whenever the idea is presented of someone living from this point forward without sinning, one or more people object to that idea citing one or more of the following reasons:

1. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. (1 John 1:8)
2. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar. (1 John 1:10)
3. If we no longer sin, then we have no need of Christ for we are then perfect, and have earned salvation, and deserve it.
4. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

In their arguments, some even go as far to say that we are always sinning, continuously and perpetually, every moment of every day.

The topic of this particular thread is very specific, namely those questions listed below.

This is not a discussion on whether or not living without sinning is possible. That can be discussed on a different thread. Whether you believe it possible or impossible, you can still answer the following questions.

This is not a discussion on how we can have salvation. Rather, it is about the implications of the idea of living without sinning anymore.

Regardless of whether you think it possible or impossible to live "and sin no more" prior to Christ's second coming, ...

if you no longer sin does it mean that ...

1. ...you are without sin?
2. ...you are perfect?
3. ...you deserve or have earned salvation?
4. ...you do not need salvation?

Thank-you Shelley for your comments. I most definitely agree with you!

1. It depends on what "without sin" means. In terms of meriting salvation, it would be necessary to live one's whole life without sin, so a person who "lives the rest of his life without sinning" would be just as much not without sin as someone who didn't. (hope the double negatives can be followed)

2. It depends on what "perfect" means. If perfect means to be Christ-like, I suppose in some sense that would have to be true, as the only way someone could go without sinning would be to be like Christ. Here's a statement from EGW: "God has made provision that all may be made like unto Him [Christ], and He will accomplish that for all who do not interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace." (MB 71 I think) This is commenting on the verse, "Be ye therefore perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect". To be perfect is to be like Christ.

Note that whatsoever is not of faith is sin, so not sinning encompasses living completely by faith, as well as being in perfect harmony with the Law, the transcript of God's character, in thought, word and deed.

3. Since it is not possible to do even one right thing without Christ, it is rediculous for one to think they can merit salvation.

4. Same answer as 3.

Interesting questions!

I agree with the above posts, although I would like to add one thought.

We cannot live without sin separate from God. To think that we have earned or merited our salvation/place in heaven because we live a sinless life would be selfishly and wrongly taking the credit for something God did, and, ultimately (in my view) be a sin.

I believe, that, ultimately, our goal in Christ should be to live as He lived, thus be perfect and without sin.

That takes a lot of work by Christ within and doesn't (generally) happen overnight. Also requires a relationship. "With Christ all things are possible" Yes, it is possible to live a sinless live from here on out.... Doesn't mean sinless from birth though

Maybe studying the life of Enoch would help answer this question........

He is a representative of those alive/saved/God's people. when He comes to claim His own.

We are living in the days of the 144.000...they are without fault, and the charater of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people.....they are sinless, so they can see Jesus face to face.

The only part of us that is changed when Jesus comes is Glorification. When the judgement is over before Jesus comes....He says, "Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

It is too late to gain spiritual perfection after the close of our probation [the verse above} but this mortal body will put on immortality.....and off we go to eternity. Praise God.


So where are we in this equation?

1. you are without sin?

Yes, of course. Only sinless people can go and sin no more.

2. you are perfect?

Yes, of course. At least, morally.

3. you deserve or have earned salvation?

No, no, no.

4. you do not need salvation?

No, no, no.

Why is it that so many claim to be holy and sinless? It is because they are so far from Christ. I have never dared to claim any such a thing. From the time that I was 14 years old, if I knew what the will of God was, I was willing to do it. You never have heard me say I am sinless. Those that get sight of the loveliness and exalted character of Jesus Christ, who was holy and lifted up and His train fills the temple, will never say it. Yet we are to meet with those that will say such things more and more.--Manuscript 5, 1885.

Wow. A pretty marked contrast there.

Contrast? No, not at all. Saying, I am sinless, and being, Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect - are two totally different things. Not even Jesus boasted about being sinless. We are born again morally sinless.

Galatians
2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Sister White encourages us to be holy and sinless, like Jesus.

AG 179
As Christ in His humanity sought strength from His Father, that He might be enabled to endure trial and temptation, so are we to do. We are to follow the example of the sinless Son of God. Daily we need help and grace and power from the Source of all power. We are to cast our helpless souls upon the One who is ready to help us in every time of need. Too often we forget the Lord. Self gives way to impulse, and we lose the victories that we should gain. {AG 179.4}

HP 166
"Be ye therefore perfect" (Matt. 5:48) is God's word to us. And in order that we might obey this word, He sent His only-begotten Son to this earth to live in our behalf a perfect life. We have before us His example, and the strength by which He lived this life is at our disposal. In thought, word, and act Jesus was sinless. Perfection marked all that He did. He points us to the path that He trod, saying, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me" (Matt. 16:24). {HP 166.4}

HP 146
Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God's law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty. Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

6BC 1118
Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts (MS 122, 1901). {6BC 1118.10}

Whenever Sister White denounced saying, I am sinless, it was always in the context of false sanctification and law breaking.

FW 53
While they profess to be sinless and boast of their righteousness, the claimants of sanctification teach that men are at liberty to transgress the law of God and that those who obey its precepts have fallen from grace. {FW 53.3}