Of the 45 sins blacklisted above where do you see smoking and drinking fitting in?

Do you view his obstinacy as one of his more offensive sins? And, do you view his uncharitable views of some as one of his more offensive sins? Also, do you think his drinking was one of the 45 sins blacklisted above? If so, which one?

M: I’m having a hard time reconciling your interpretation in light of the following plainly worded statements: “They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God . . . They which commit such things are worthy of death.”

T: Just read in the word "deliberately." People who ignorantly sin won't be judged for such, unless they take purposeful actions to be ignorant. It seems to me this is the same thing you're saying.

M:I’m not comfortable adding to the word of God.

M: You’ll notice that I included your view above.

T: I agree in the process of conversion people see their sins in the light of the cross, and this is something they would not have done before conversion.

M:Do you agree with me that seeing their sins for the first time in light of the cross makes a huge difference in how they view their sins? If so, what do think accounts for it?

I disagree with your idea that the loyal angels were somehow, someway, not secure until AD 31.

Well, then, might the angels rejoice as they looked upon the Saviour's cross; for though they did not then understand all, they knew that the destruction of sin and Satan was forever made certain, that the redemption of man was assured, and that the universe was made eternally secure.(DA 764)

The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. (DA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, p. 1132)

No, I do not agree with you that Paul was addressing every human being born on this planet. He was talking about people who once understood the truth about God and then turned their back on Him. He was definitely not talking about “heathens” or “savages” who have never heard name of God.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

T: Yes it is, unless you didn't mean what you said. You said people can live ignorantly in sin. This is just what you said. Do you disagree with what you said earlier? Perhaps so, since you're now saying they cannot live together without a sense of shame.

M:People can sin in ignorance, but only in relation to the first four commandments. I have never said two people can live in sin (i.e. living and sleeping together unlawfully) without feeling uncomfortable about it. Yes, they can harden their heart and not feel shame.

T: We've spoken about this. I've said I disagreed, and that I think you have a superficial view of what constitutes sin, because you think it's something which can be covered by the SDA fundamental beliefs. By the way, these beliefs have changed over time. Also, the SOP tells us not all of what we believe is necessarily without error.

EGW:There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation.

T:I'm mentioning this because if you're basing your idea of what it means to sin on the basis of our fundamental beliefs, that's shaky ground.

M:Do you *suspect* one or more of our fundamental beliefs are in error and are the source of SDAs sinning ignorantly? Also, do you think certain subtle sins are overlooked by our fundamental beliefs? If so, please name them. Thank you.

Personally, I believe they meant precisely what they said, namely, that anyone who practices the sins they blacklisted will not be admitted to heaven. So, yes, I do not believe smoking and drinking are included or any other sin believers can commit in ignorance.

M: You seem to be suggesting that SDAs who are living in perfect harmony with our fundamental beliefs come short of the glory of God. In what way?

T: The fundamental beliefs are doctrines. A person can agree to believe and do certain things without even being converted. The Pharisees are examples of this.

M:You didn’t answer my question. How can a born again converted person live in perfect harmony with our beliefs and come short of the glory of God?

T: What evidence do you have that she even conceived of such a class of people?

M:The evidence is as follows: ... You seem to think the state of sinlessness described above can be reached only after years of sinning less and less until sinning ceases altogether. If so, please post inspired passages to support such an assertion.

M: Of the 45 sins blacklisted above where do you see smoking and drinking fitting in?

T: Where do you think it fits in? I don't feel like looking through the list. I'm sure you'll pick a good spot. Why does it matter?

T: Yes it is, unless you didn't mean what you said. You said people can live ignorantly in sin. This is just what you said. Do you disagree with what you said earlier? Perhaps so, since you're now saying they cannot live together without a sense of shame.

M: People can sin in ignorance, but only in relation to the first four commandments. I have never said two people can live in sin (i.e. living and sleeping together unlawfully) without feeling uncomfortable about it. Yes, they can harden their heart and not feel shame.

T: You said people could live in sin ignorantly. I called your attention to this right as you said it. Do you disagree with what you said earlier?

M: Do you *suspect* one or more of our fundamental beliefs are in error and are the source of SDAs sinning ignorantly? Also, do you think certain subtle sins are overlooked by our fundamental beliefs? If so, please name them. Thank you.

T: No, I was simply pointing out the flaw in your attitude regarding the fundamental beliefs, especially your apparently attitude that they cannot be in error (see the EGW quote).

T: What evidence do you have that she even conceived of such a class of people?

M: The evidence is as follows:


M: You seem to think the state of sinlessness described above can be reached only after years of sinning less and less until sinning ceases altogether. If so, please post inspired passages to support such an assertion.

T: What you posted didn't remotely come close to what you are suggesting. You are suggesting there are two different classes of people who are born again, one class which continue to practice sins of ignorance until the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, and another class who are instantly perfect or sanctified. Now while EGW describes a class of people who are sanctified, or perfect (namely, the 144,000), she in no way suggests that these people got in that condition instantly.

A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or to trace all the circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. By an agency as unseen as the wind, Christ is constantly working upon the heart. Little by little, perhaps unconsciously to the receiver, impressions are made that tend to draw the soul to Christ. These may be received through meditating upon Him, through reading the Scriptures, or through hearing the word from the living preacher. Suddenly, as the Spirit comes with more direct appeal, the soul gladly surrenders itself to Jesus. By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God,--a patient, protracted process. {DA 172.3}

"The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character. {DA 123.3}

Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}

M: I disagree with your idea that the loyal angels were somehow, someway, not secure until AD 31.

T: It's not my idea. I wouldn't have known this except for Ellen White:

Well, then, might the angels rejoice as they looked upon the Saviour's cross; for though they did not then understand all, they knew that the destruction of sin and Satan was forever made certain, that the redemption of man was assured, and that the universe was made eternally secure.(DA 764)

The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. (DA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, p. 1132)

It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. {5BC 1132.8}

It matters because Jesus thought it was important enough to talk about. He also inspired Paul and others to write about it. You’re the one who is insisting that born again believers can commit some of the sins Jesus and Paul blacklisted above without realizing they are sinning. You also seem to think it is because the Holy Spirit is waiting for the right time to reveal it to them, that to reveal it too soon would turn them away. When asked to say exactly which sins this applies to you name two that neither Jesus nor Paul listed. What’s up?

T: You said people could live in sin ignorantly. I called your attention to this right as you said it. Do you disagree with what you said earlier?

M:I must have misunderstood what you said because I have never believed people can live together unlawfully without feeling uncomfortable, that is, until they harden their hearts.

M: Do you *suspect* one or more of our fundamental beliefs are in error and are the source of SDAs sinning ignorantly? Also, do you think certain subtle sins are overlooked by our fundamental beliefs? If so, please name them. Thank you.

T: No, I was simply pointing out the flaw in your attitude regarding the fundamental beliefs, especially your apparently attitude that they cannot be in error (see the EGW quote).

M:Personally I do not believe any of our fundamental beliefs are wrong or partly wrong. Nor do I believe living harmony with them results in sinning ignorantly. And, I do not believe they overlook the subtle sins you alluded to. Do you agree with me on all three points?

What I’m saying is the experience described above is available to people who experience rebirth and conversion simultaneously, that is, they 1) learn how to crucify their old man habits of sin, and 2) learn how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded – both during the same process and time period.

I am not saying they experience instant perfection or instant sanctification. There is nothing instant about it. It is the result of “long wooing . . . a patient, protracted process.” See quote below. In some cases people complete the process of converting from the ways of the world to the ways of God within a few months. In such cases, they reach the sinless state described above, which is not to say they have no more room to grow and mature. Instead, like Jesus, who grew and matured from childhood to manhood, so too, they grow and mature daily in the fruits of the Spirit – so long as they are actively and aggressively abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

What I’m saying is the experience described above is available to people who experience rebirth and conversion simultaneously

Do you think in some cases people 1) learn how to crucify their old man habits of sin, and 2) learn how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded within a few months? And, do you think the two quotes below describe them? Please elaborate.

Think of the eleventh hour believers during the Loud Cry who come out of Babylon in response to the 3AMs. How long do they have to reach the sinless state described above?

The following description of rebirth and conversion agrees with the view I've been advocating. It refutes the idea that most born again believers continue to ignorantly practice some of the sins they cultivated prior to rebirth.

Tom, do you see the point?

M: It matters because Jesus thought it was important enough to talk about. He also inspired Paul and others to write about it. You’re the one who is insisting that born again believers can commit some of the sins Jesus and Paul blacklisted above without realizing they are sinning. You also seem to think it is because the Holy Spirit is waiting for the right time to reveal it to them, that to reveal it too soon would turn them away. When asked to say exactly which sins this applies to you name two that neither Jesus nor Paul listed. What’s up?

T: I don't think Jesus even thought along these terms. Or Paul. The point was bringing out the necessity of being converted, not to build some theology based on a list.

T: You said people could live in sin ignorantly. I called your attention to this right as you said it. Do you disagree with what you said earlier?

M: I must have misunderstood what you said because I have never believed people can live together unlawfully without feeling uncomfortable, that is, until they harden their hearts.

T: You said people could live in sin ignorantly. I called this to your attention when you said it, because it struck me as being different than what you had said earlier. I don't see how there can be a question of your misunderstanding me involved here. I can see there being an issue of your having misspoken.

M: Do you *suspect* one or more of our fundamental beliefs are in error and are the source of SDAs sinning ignorantly? Also, do you think certain subtle sins are overlooked by our fundamental beliefs? If so, please name them. Thank you.

T: No, I was simply pointing out the flaw in your attitude regarding the fundamental beliefs, especially your apparently attitude that they cannot be in error (see the EGW quote).

M: Personally I do not believe any of our fundamental beliefs are wrong or partly wrong. Nor do I believe living in harmony with them results in sinning ignorantly. And, I do not believe they overlook the subtle sins you alluded to. Do you agree with me on all three points?

T: I was getting at the idea that the fundamental beliefs could be wrong or partly wrong. Do you think that's possible?

M: No.

T: I think the fundamental beliefs are not concerned with defining what a perfect Christian is. I don't think "overlook" is a proper way of addressing this, as this wasn't a concern. The purpose of the Fundamental beliefs is to set forth what the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church is. I can't think of any FB's that I disagree with.

10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

11. Growing in Christ:
By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus' victory gives us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience. (Ps 1:1, 2; 23:4; 77:11, 12; Col 1:13, 14; 2:6, 14, 15; Luke 10:17-20; Eph 5:19, 20; 6:12-18; 1 Thess 5:23; 2 Peter 2:9; 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:17, 18; Phil 3:7-14; 1 Thess 5:16-18; Matt 20:25-28; John 20:21; Gal 5:22-25; Rom 8:38, 39; 1 John 4:4; Heb 10:25.)

14. Unity in the Body of Christ:
The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

17. Spiritual Gifts and Ministries:
God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. Given by the agency of the Holy Spirit, who apportions to each member as He wills, the gifts provide all abilities and ministries needed by the church to fulfill its divinely ordained functions. According to the Scriptures, these gifts include such ministries as faith, healing, prophecy, proclamation, teaching, administration, reconciliation, compassion, and self-sacrificing service and charity for the help and encouragement of people. Some members are called of God and endowed by the Spirit for functions recognized by the church in pastoral, evangelistic, apostolic, and teaching ministries particularly needed to equip the members for service, to build up the church to spiritual maturity, and to foster unity of the faith and knowledge of God. When members employ these spiritual gifts as faithful stewards of God's varied grace, the church is protected from the destructive influence of false doctrine, grows with a growth that is from God, and is built up in faith and love. (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:9-11, 27, 28; Eph. 4:8, 11-16; Acts 6:1-7; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; 1 Peter 4:10, 11.)

19. Law of God:
The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

21. Stewardship:
We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

22. Christian Behavior:
We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven. For the Spirit to recreate in us the character of our Lord we involve ourselves only in those things which will produce Christlike purity, health, and joy in our lives. This means that our amusement and entertainment should meet the highest standards of Christian taste and beauty. While recognizing cultural differences, our dress is to be simple, modest, and neat, befitting those whose true beauty does not consist of outward adornment but in the imperishable ornament of a gentle and quiet spirit. It also means that because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness. (Rom. 12:1, 2; 1 John 2:6; Eph. 5:1-21; Phil. 4:8; 2 Cor. 10:5; 6:14-7:1; 1 Peter 3:1-4; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 10:31; Lev. 11:1-47; 3 John 2.)

23. Marriage and the Family:
Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship. For the Christian a marriage commitment is to God as well as to the spouse, and should be entered into only between partners who share a common faith. Mutual love, honor, respect, and responsibility are the fabric of this relationship, which is to reflect the love, sanctity, closeness, and permanence of the relationship between Christ and His church. Regarding divorce, Jesus taught that the person who divorces a spouse, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery. Although some family relationships may fall short of the ideal, marriage partners who fully commit themselves to each other in Christ may achieve loving unity through the guidance of the Spirit and the nurture of the church. God blesses the family and intends that its members shall assist each other toward complete maturity. Parents are to bring up their children to love and obey the Lord. By their example and their words they are to teach them that Christ is a loving disciplinarian, ever tender and caring, who wants them to become members of His body, the family of God. Increasing family closeness is one of the earmarks of the final gospel message. (Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 19:3-9; John 2:1-11; 2 Cor. 6:14; Eph. 5:21-33; Matt. 5:31, 32; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11; Ex. 20:12; Eph. 6:1-4; Deut. 6:5-9; Prov. 22:6; Mal. 4:5, 6.)

M: What I’m saying is the experience described above is available to people who experience rebirth and conversion simultaneously, that is, they 1) learn how to crucify their old man habits of sin, and 2) learn how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded – both during the same process and time period.

I am not saying they experience instant perfection or instant sanctification. There is nothing instant about it. It is the result of “long wooing . . . a patient, protracted process.” See quote below. In some cases people complete the process of converting from the ways of the world to the ways of God within a few months. In such cases, they reach the sinless state described above, which is not to say they have no more room to grow and mature. Instead, like Jesus, who grew and matured from childhood to manhood, so too, they grow and mature daily in the fruits of the Spirit – so long as they are actively and aggressively abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

T: It is instant sanctification. This is what you're describing here:



The "experience described above" is the sanctification part, and the "experience rebirth and conversion simultaneously" is the instantly part, where "conversion" means "sanctification." (i.e., your usage of the word "conversion" = "sanctification.")

Before the person is born again, the person is unconverted, lost, an unbeliever. You're suggesting that when the person believe in Christ, he is instantly perfect (i.e., at that instant perfect, in the sense of not committing any sins, known or unknown), even though a moment earlier the person wasn't even a believer. That the process to get to the point of believing takes a while is irrelevant. The "instant sanctification" has to do with the time from believing to not sinning, which is, in your view, an instant, and hence "instant sanctification."

“Let us be growing Christians. We are not to stand still. We are to be in advance today of what we were yesterday; every day learning to be more trustful, more fully relying upon Jesus. Thus we are to grow up. You do not at one bound reach perfection; sanctification is the work of a lifetime. {3SM 193.1}

Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfillment of the covenant God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, His Son, and His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then cooperate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf (MS 11, 1901). {7BC 908.11}

Evidences of Sanctification.--True sanctification will be evidenced by a conscientious regard for all the commandments of God, by a careful improvement of every talent, by a circumspect conversation, by revealing in every act the meekness of Christ (RH Oct. 5, 1886). {7BC 908.12}

(1 John 2:3, 4.) The True Sign of Sanctification.--Those who dishonor God by transgressing His law may talk sanctification, but it is of that value, and just as acceptable, as was the offering of Cain. Obedience to all the commandments of God is the only true sign of sanctification. Disobedience is the sign of disloyalty and apostasy (MS 41, 1897). {7BC 908.13}

(Rom. 3:24-28.) Holiness Within the Reach of All.--God has chosen men from eternity to be holy. "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." God's law tolerates no sin, but demands perfect obedience. The echo of God's voice comes to us, ever saying. Holier, holier still. And ever our answer is to be, Yes, Lord, holier still. Holiness is within the reach of all who reach for it by faith, not because of their good works, but because of Christ's merits. Divine power is provided for every soul struggling for the victory over sin and Satan. {7BC 908.14}

Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}

Sanctification and Communion.--Sanctification means habitual communion with God (RH March 15, 1906). {7BC 908.16}

M: Do you think in some cases people 1) learn how to crucify their old man habits of sin, and 2) learn how to live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded within a few months? And, do you think the two quotes below describe them? Please elaborate.

Think of the eleventh hour believers during the Loud Cry who come out of Babylon in response to the 3AMs. How long do they have to reach the sinless state described above?

T: I think it's more like a couple of years. If you look at the 1888 message, when this (i.e. Christ's Second Coming, and the events leading up to it) almost happened, you can get an idea as to a possible time line.