Now - see we do agree on something.

Do we also agree that Christ was Crucified on the cross and NOT burned in the lake of fire... and that those in the lake of fire are NOT crucified on the cross by Romans and then exposed to the supernatural agony of the weight of suffering and torment owed by ALL sinners for ALL of time?

Ooops -- I think you missed a couple of details as listed above - when equating what Christ suffered to a single person being "tormented in fire and brimstone" as the Bible says - in the Lake of Fire.

Notice that the glory of God is not burning or tormenting the wicked in Rev 20 as they all see Him high and lifted up on His throne and judging the secrets of all mankind?

Nor is the glory of God shining on Jesus at the cross and causing Him to suffer by the very presence of God.

"For example - the Bible says "For in Six days the Lord Created the heavens and the Earth"

[quote]

I disagree. It does torment them. Indeed, this is what causes their agony. In the GC description, as Christ is revealed, the wicked become aware of every sin they have committed, of where they turned away from God, of the wooing of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

We should not try to lessen our guilt by excusing sin. We must accept God's estimate of sin, and that is heavy indeed. Calvary alone can reveal the terrible enormity of sin. If we had to bear our own guilt, it would crush us.(MB 116)

Bob, is this literal?

M: You seem to be saying it was the meat, not God, that slayed them.

K: Actually, was it Tom or Ellen White: "He let them suffer the results of gratifying their lustful appetites" "If they had submitted to have the Lord select their food for them, and had been thankful and satisfied for food which they could eat freely of without injury"

I'm sure you're going to say I left off the punishing part. But that is the part under question. What do you think Ellen White is trying to get across from the above, "without injury"? If God was going to strike them down, why didn't He just strike them down instead of going through the charade of giving them meat as they desired?

M: If so, why did God send them a food source sure to kill them?

K: If not?

What if it was for some other reason? For that matter, why did God put the tree in the midst of the Garden if it was sure to kill Adam and Eve? Was it for some other reason?

God said if they followed Him, they wouldn't have the diseases of the Egyptians. God supplied the food that was best for them. They wanted to eat like the Egyptians. So, either God could have said, no you have no choice in the matter, you're going to follow me whether you like it or not. Or, He could let them have their way. Which way do you suggest He should have done?

He let them have their way. They got to eat like the Egyptians. They therefore got the diseases of the Egyptians. Did they learn anything from the experience? They wanted meat with their eyes wide opened.

If it was only God directly killing them, why would He give what wasn't right only to slaughter them? Are you suggesting that He was acting like a parent who told their kid they couldn't have any cookies before dinner, then held the cookie jar in front of them and say, come on, don't you want a cookie. The kid reaches in and takes a cookie, then the parent says, I told you no cookies before dinner and then proceeds to belt the daylights out of them?

M: Indeed, why didn't God simply allow them to die without having to eat the quail He sent them?

K: You seem to be assuming they should die, by some means, for wanting meat. Why?

Exodus
16:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God.
16:13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.
16:14 And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness [there lay] a small round thing, [as] small as the hoar frost on the ground.
16:15 And when the children of Israel saw [it], they said one to another, It [is] manna: for they wist not what it [was]. And Moses said unto them, This [is] the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

Numbers
11:4 And the mixed multitude that [was] among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?
11:5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlic:
11:6 But now our soul [is] dried away: [there is] nothing at all, beside this manna, [before] our eyes.
11:10 Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the LORD was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased.
11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for [it was] well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
11:19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
11:20 [But] even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the LORD which [is] among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?
11:31 And there went forth a wind from the LORD, and brought quails from the sea, and let [them] fall by the camp, as it were a day's journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey on the other side, round about the camp, and as it were two cubits [high] upon the face of the earth.
11:32 And the people stood up all that day, and all [that] night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread [them] all abroad for themselves round about the camp.
11:33 And while the flesh [was] yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.

MM, regarding punishment, kland quoted this:


This says that God punished them for their rebellious murmurings, but how did He do so? By giving them what they wanted. As I pointed out, Deut. 31 explains the concept I've been sharing well:


God's anger (or wrath) is manifest by His hiding His face. This is how He punishes. The result is great troubles coming upon those who hides His face from. And there's the following, which has been quoted many, many times:


This points out that there is no more decisive testimony as to the certain punishment that will fall upon the wicked than the destruction of Jerusalem, where we know that Israel was destroyed according to the same principles spelled out in Deut. 31. The "punishment" does refer to what happens when God hides His face.

The medical term for the effects of eating toxic quail is coturnism. The illness sounds dreadful, with a list of symptoms that includes vomiting, respiratory distress, excruciating pain, and paralysis, but it is seldom fatal except to elderly people. Conversely, children are said to get less severely sick than adults. But it takes from three to ten nasty days to get over the symptoms. Yet come next year, many victims willingly partake of the succulent dark meat.

The name coturnism wasn’t coined until this century, but people have known about quail poisoning for perhaps as long as 3,500 years. This estimate is based on a Biblical story of Israelites in the wilderness feasting on quail and quickly being struck down with a plague. Later, ancient Greek and Roman writers, described the syndrome as well.

Quail Poisoning