Claudia, great questions, great comments, and great quotes. Thank you for starting this thread. I think this is where the "rubber meets the road" in the Bible and in our heart, mind, and soul. I realize the great controversy includes the entire Universe and that the vindication of God's character and kingdom is key - but I am very endeared to God because of what He does for me personally here and now.

When I am tempted to be unlike Jesus, I just love it when I trust in God and He in turn empowers me to recognize and resist the temptation; but more than this, I love it when He empowers me to use my faculties of mind and body to mature in the fruits of the Spirit, to become more and more kind and loving and patient like my sweet Jesus. Equally rewarding is when my wife, my Most Lovely, notices it when I'm being like Jesus and she lifts her precious voice and praises God. Being like Jesus means everything to me. Thank you Jesus!!!

Perhaps that is as good a definition of perfection of character as you will find.

Here are a couple of quotes from Steps to Christ to consider:


The first one tells us what happened when man sinned. The second one tells us what happens when man is born again. The first tells us how we lost perfection; the second how we regain it.

The problem is that selfishness took the place of love; the solution is simply the reverse.

The following talks about the real cause of man's difficulties.



And the solution! The problem came about in believing the enemy's lies about God. The solution is to believe the truth, which is the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Everything depends on us reaching the sinless condition in which Adam lived before the Fall. The honor of God, the honor of Christ, is involved in the perfection of the character of His people. Listen:

Of the Spirit Jesus said, "He shall glorify Me." The Saviour came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love; so the Spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing His grace to the world. The very image of God is to be reproduced in humanity. The honor of God, the honor of Christ, is involved in the perfection of the character of His people. {DA 671.3}

"Let us not love in word," the apostle writes, "but in deed and in truth." The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within. It is the atmosphere of this love surrounding the soul of the believer that makes him a savor of life unto life and enables God to bless his work. {AA 551.1}

The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within, when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is expressed in the countenance.--Manuscript 108, 1899. {CME 47.2}

Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts (MS 122, 1901). {6BC 1118.10}

Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God's law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty. Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost. Their confidence in God, their faith and firmness, will be severely tested. As they review the past, their hopes sink; for in their whole lives they can see little good. They are fully conscious of their weakness and unworthiness. Satan endeavors to terrify them with the thought that their cases are hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations and turn from their allegiance to God. {GC 618.3}

according to this the righteous do not judge themselves as righteous.
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

we may be saying the same thing but let me make sure. it isnt enough to know the character of God, we also have to submit and be made over into His image, right?

many can know God is good and resist every softening of the heart, right?

This may be where our theologies differ the most. You believe the main problem is that sinful man has wrong beliefs about God, and the solution is to fix his wrong ideas. I believe the main problem is that sinful man is selfish, and the solution is to be made loving.

Right there in your quote is this gem: "Sin originated in self-seeking." Selfishness is the problem. While sinful man's ideas may be false, the biggest problem is that he is depraved.

As it relates to this thread, perfection of character is not primarily about having correct ideas about God, but having a character that is like God's. And the simplest summary of God's character is what we teach our children: God is love. If one manifests that kind of love, he has achieved perfection of character. That's my $0.02 anyway.

BTW, do you remember the SOP quote I posted that tells us that the seat of our difficulty is the unrenewed heart? The difficulty is not bad ideas, but a bad heart.

i have to disagree some, arnold. i came from a place where love meant hurt. so saying God is love from people who then hurt you in one form or another meant that that was the way God was. i think many, many people have a warped view of God and are living up to it with all their heart. i couldnt because it was wrong to me. so i had to reject Him or at least that part of Him. that made life confusing to say the least. to be a christian i had to hurt people but that just seemed so wrong.

when i decided to be "on His side" i told Him His job was to keep me from doing to others what had been done to me but that i would run my own life, thank you very much. and thats the way it was for a long time. it was little chips here and there before i came to see Him in a different light. and im still not completely there yet. i still cannot use the word "love" and it have any real meaning. "caring" has meaning for me.

for many of us our view of God determines how we view selfishness, love or a myriad of whatever. so, for me, i would say you are both right.

yes we are depraved, selfish but:

first we have to have a correct view of God, a correct view of selfishness, a correct view of all else involved.

then we either surrender, take on the new way of thinking or resist.

my 2 cents which may need further info or refining.

Im going to come back and read all this later, but heres something to think about...

Rv:14:5: And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

What exactly is GUILE?

Isnt it malicious intent?

here is just one thing I found:

God pledged Himself to introduce into the hearts of human beings a new principle--a hatred of sin, of deception, of pretense, of everything that bears the marks of Satan's guile.--Manuscript 72, 1904.

Guile "dolos" means crafty or deceitful

Guile in Rev 14 is used in reference to the 144,000 which they will obtain a perfect character. Here's one verse in reference to Christ.

In the OT the word guile is not found, but we have lots of hit for deceit or deceitful.

In Jer say that being deceitful is man's #1 heart condition problem.

Here's an interesting one concerning a true or false witness :