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Re: Sinning Not #11062
10/20/04 03:49 AM
10/20/04 03:49 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Any sin is coming short of the glory of God and makes a person not sinless. Sin, whether known or unknown, misrepresents God's character. Since by beholding we become changed, it is imperative that we behold God as He really is in Christ Jesus. This is why it would be good to spend a thoughtful hour contemplating the life of Christ each day, especially the latter scenes.

Re: Sinning Not #11063
10/21/04 03:53 AM
10/21/04 03:53 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
How can sins of ignorance misrepresent God's character? Sin is the stuff of choice and character. If the Spirit of God hasn't revealed our sins of ignorance, then we are not morally guilty of them, thus we cannot be guilty of misrepresenting the character of God. The only thing that can dishonor God is our unconquered, uncrucified defective traits of character.

According to the apostle Paul there is no such thing as an unknown defective trait of character. Remember, character traits are developed as we repeat the same behaviour over and over again. Therefore, there is no way a born again believer, who is being led and empowered by the Spirit, can unknowingly develop, or unknowingly possess, a sinful trait of character.

All uncrucified moral imperfections are nothing more than known and cherished sins. Why? Because there is no excuse for retaining them, no excuse for repeating them. "We need not retain one sinful propensity." FLB 23. "When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again." MAR 237.

So, what constitutes a sin of ignorance?

1 John
5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

RH 12 April 1892
The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices, they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again.

The command, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," would never have been given, if every provision had not been made whereby we may become as perfect in our sphere as God is in his. We are to be ever advancing from light to a greater light, holding fast what we have already received, and praying for more. Thus we shall never be left in darkness.

Re: Sinning Not #11064
10/20/04 04:39 PM
10/20/04 04:39 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,130
Nova Scotia, Canada
In response to Mike Lowe's last post I am asking four questions:

1 - Did Adam and/or Eve commit any sins of ignorance before the Fall?

2 - Did Adam and/or Eve commit any sins of ignorance after the Fall?

3 - Did Christ commit any sins of ignorance while here on earth from the manger to the cross?

4 - Did and do we as professing Christians commit any sins of ignorance?

Re: Sinning Not #11065
10/20/04 05:06 PM
10/20/04 05:06 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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But, Daryl, how do we define a sin of ignorance? Do defective traits of character qualify as sins of ignorance?

4BC 1159
The influence of the Spirit upon the human mind will regulate it after the divine order. But the Spirit does not work in a manner and power beyond the human agent's power of resistance. A man may refuse to hear the counsels and admonitions of God. He may choose to take the regulating of his conduct into his own hands; but when he does this, he is not made a vessel unto honor. Like Moab, he refuses to be changed, emptied from vessel to vessel, and therefore his scent remaineth in him. He refuses to correct his defective traits of character, although the Lord has plainly pointed out his work, his privileges, his opportunities, and the advancement to be made. It is too much trouble to break up his old ways, and transform his ideas and methods. "His scent is not changed." He clings to his defects, and is thus unfitted for the sacred work of the ministry. He was not willing to make a close examination of himself, or to closely inquire for light to shine upon him in a clear, distinct manner. His prayers have not ascended to God in humility, while with humble endeavor he sought to live his prayers by understanding and performing his duty. {4BC 1159.5}

6BC 1072
If we were defective in character, we could not pass the gates that mercy has opened to the obedient; for justice stands at the entrance, and demands holiness, purity, in all who would see God. Were justice extinct, and were it possible for divine mercy to open the gates to the whole race, irrespective of character, there would be a worse condition of disaffection and rebellion in heaven than before Satan was expelled. The peace, happiness, and harmony of heaven would be broken up. The change from earth to heaven will not change men's characters; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the characters formed in this life, after the image of Christ. The saints in heaven will first have been saints on earth. {6BC 1072.2}

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, December 15, 1904, paragraph 12
Article Title: A Call to Repentance
There are many who are not Bible Christians. They follow a standard of their own devising. If they would see their defective, distorted characters as they are accurately reflected in the mirror of God's Word, they would be so alarmed that they would fall upon their faces before God in contrition of soul, and tear away the rags of their self-righteousness.

(Australasian) Union Conference Record, July 12, 1899, paragraph 9
Article Title: The Higher Education
Can we suppose that parents who have neglected or indulged their children, letting them, because it is easier, follow their own way, stand on the same footing as parents who have followed the will and way of God? Churches have been troubled by the defective characters of parents and the defective characters of their children. What have they been bringing to the foundation? Only wood, hay, and stubble. They may be saved and their children may be saved, because they have at last awakened to their defects; but will they be regarded in the same light as are those whose lives have been devoted to the service of Christ? As one star differeth from another star in glory, so it will be with the saints in light.

Re: Sinning Not #11066
10/20/04 05:46 PM
10/20/04 05:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Here's are some more interesting quotes about defective traits of character:

Manuscript Releases Volume Eighteen, page 166, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Formation of Character
There are some who will not hear. So long have they chosen to follow their own way and their own wisdom, so long have they cherished defective hereditary and cultivated tendencies of character, that they are blind, and cannot see afar off. By them, principles are perverted; false standards are raised; tests are made that bear not the signature of heaven. Thus many of God's professed people are assimilating worldly ideas and forming characters that will exclude them from heaven. And yet some of these very ones make their boasts in the Lord as a people who do righteousness, and forsake not the ordinances of their God.--Ms 138, 1902. Ellen G. White Estate Washington, D. C. Dec. 17, 1987. Entire Ms.

Testimony to the Church, page 27, paragraph 1
The true followers of Christ will not choose intimate friendship with those whose characters have serious defects, and whose example as a whole it would not be safe to follow, while it is their privilege to associate with persons who observe a conscientious regard to their duties in their business, and the duties of religion. Those who lack principle and devotion generally have a more positive influence to mold the minds of their intimate friends than those have whose characters seem well balanced to control and influence the defective in character, and those lacking spirituality and devotion.

The Youth's Instructor, January 9, 1896, paragraph 4
Article Title: Those Who Are Blessed
We may multiply forms and ceremonies, and heap resolution upon resolution, and be nothing better for all these things. What we need is purity of heart; and God can give us this as a free gift of his grace. Many blame circumstances for their defective characters. They say, "I could do so much better if things were only different; but this one tries me, and that one vexes me, and that is the reason that I am not a better Christian." But this is a deception. There is grace with God to enable you to serve him just where you are, and excuses of this order have no weight with him. Do not charge your circumstances with your failure. The Lord knows where you are, and he would have you practise those things which make for godliness.

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, August 28, 1900, paragraph 7
Article Title: Partakers of the Divine Nature
These directions to the elders of the church are to be heeded. If God, the great Master worker, is with his servants, they will reveal this fact in their daily conduct. Among those who have the oversight of the flock of God are men who bear the stamp of defective characters. They are not walking with Christ. Their piety is not sound and healthful; it is of a cheap order. These need to learn what constitutes true religion. Religion is not a patchwork concern, which makes everything of the Christian's name, and in which self is personified. A man's religion must be founded on the word of God. Practiced in the home life, and exemplified in the church, it will constitute him a laborer together with God.

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, June 28, 1898, paragraph 5
Article Title: The Lord's Supper and the Ordinance of Feet-Washing--No. 5
The Lord understands all the defects in human character. He desires to save man. It was for this purpose that he came to this world. In him all sufficiency dwells. In him dwells all "the fulness of the Godhead bodily." The defective characters that remain thus, when One is among them who came to our world for the express purpose of taking away the sin of the world, make manifest that they do not appreciate the attributes of Christ sufficiently to hunger and thirst after righteousness, and they will not be exalted as worthy. "Blessed are the meek," were the words that fell from his divine lips; "for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, September 5, 1893, paragraph 2
Article Title: The Remnant Church Not Babylon (Continued)
Jesus knew that Judas was defective in character, but notwithstanding this, he accepted him as one of the disciples, and gave him the same opportunities and privileges that he gave to the others whom he had chosen. Judas was left without excuse in the evil course he afterward pursued. Judas might have become a doer of the word, as were eventually Peter and James and John and the other disciples. Jesus gave precious lessons of instruction, so that those who were associated with him might have been converted, and have no need of clinging to the defects that marred their characters.

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, November 18, 1890, paragraph 3
Article Title: A Peculiar People
The enemy of Christ, who rebelled against God's law in heaven, has, as a skilled, trained general, worked with all his power, bringing out one device after another, full of deception, to make of none effect the law of God, the only true detector of sin, the standard of righteousness. The great mass of mankind are thoughtless, careless, irreverent, and they do not concern themselves with serious thoughts as to the things of eternal importance. One reason for the state of carelessness in society is that the Christian world itself has made void the law of God. Large numbers claim sanctification who will not hear to the binding obligation of the divine precepts. They are willfully ignorant of the attributes of God, ignorant of the law, ignorant of what constitutes genuine religion, and ignorant of their own sinful, defective characters. If the truth as it is in Jesus should flash upon their hearts, they would be constrained to cry out, "Unclean, unclean." They would, if candid, have to repent of their transgression of God's law; for "by the law is the knowledge of sin;" they would have to exercise faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood alone can cleanse from all sin. Then they would have the peace of Christ. Righteousness and peace would meet together in their experience, and they would be able to become symmetrical Christians. They would have the peace that passeth understanding.

Re: Sinning Not #11067
10/20/04 09:16 PM
10/20/04 09:16 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
How can sins of ignorance misrepresent God's character?
Let's say a person believes the soul is immortal. Because of this belief this person believes Hell is eternal, and presents God as punishing the wicked for as long as He shall live. This certainly is misrepresenting God's character, and is called "blasphemy" by the Spirit of Prophesy, yet it is a sin of ignorance.

God is far better than we can imagine. We come far, far short of correctly representing Him. It is as we learn His true character that we can represent Him better. We learn His true character by beholding Him in Jesus Christ. This is why it is recommended that we spend a thoughtful hour each day contemplating the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes.

"Christ crucified,--talk it, pray it, sing it, and it will break and win hearts." (CS 130)

Re: Sinning Not #11068
10/20/04 10:24 PM
10/20/04 10:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, I agree. The doctrine of eternal torment certainly misrepresents the character of God. But misunderstanding the truth about the lake of fire is not a sin, a defective trait of character. Sin is the transgression of the law.

Contemplating the life of Christ is definitely a major part of being a Christian. But it is not an excuse for retaining defective traits of character. The idea that born again believers gradually outgrow their moral imperfections after a lifetime of sinning and repenting is unbiblical.

Re: Sinning Not #11069
10/21/04 01:49 AM
10/21/04 01:49 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The Spirit of Prophesy calls the doctrine of eternal hell "dreadful blasphemy." How can "dreadful blasphemy" not be a sin? It's an unknown sin, assuming the person is ignorant of the truth, but a sin nonetheless.

The law is a transcript of God's character. If we represent His character in a way that is untrue, that is transgression of the law.

The only way to overcome defective traits of character is by contemplating Christ. This is not an excuse, but a remedy.

======

Removed the quote of the preceding post. - Daryl [Smile]

[ October 21, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

Re: Sinning Not #11070
10/21/04 03:33 AM
10/21/04 03:33 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, the idea that born again believers gradually outgrow moral imperfections is unbiblical. Overcoming a defective trait of character, which is different than outgrowing it, means resisting the temptation to resurrect the old man and commit a known sin. It has nothing to do with sins of ignorance. Again, it is not a sin to misunderstand the doctrine of death and eternal punishment.

Re: Sinning Not #11071
10/21/04 04:58 AM
10/21/04 04:58 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Again, it is not a sin to misunderstand the doctrine of death and eternal punishment.

How can "dreadful blasphemy" not be a sin?

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