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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#110536
03/26/09 06:40 PM
03/26/09 06:40 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Nevertheless, Mike, you failed to include in your list a few posts back one of the most important passages on this topic. Considering you would have neglected to mention Abraham and Isaac, I wonder what else may have been overlooked. GC, please post the passages from the Pentateuch which explain why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolize His death. Thank you.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110537
03/26/09 06:41 PM
03/26/09 06:41 PM
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OP
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PS - GC, I hope you will honor my request because so far both Tom and Kland have refused.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110591
03/27/09 03:17 PM
03/27/09 03:17 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
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Canada
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MM, I don't see the whole point in your study. It seems you are dwelling in these type of talks to cast doubt on the Bible. Do you have any problem with the Bible? Is that why you hardly quote it?
Blessings
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Elle]
#110595
03/27/09 05:09 PM
03/27/09 05:09 PM
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Active Member 2012
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MM, your request hasn't been refused. It's just that you repeat the same questions over and over again.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110596
03/27/09 05:11 PM
03/27/09 05:11 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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It has been suggested that Moses clearly explained why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolized Jesus' death. Do you know where in Bible Moses explained these two things? Here is what I find: And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. (Numbers 21:8, KJV) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. (Numbers 21:9, KJV)
It is implied in this very brief story that an explanation was given to the children of Israel, in the form of necessary instructions for what to do. Here was ground with which Nicodemus was familiar. The symbol of the uplifted serpent made plain to him the Saviour's mission. When the people of Israel were dying from the sting of the fiery serpents, God directed Moses to make a serpent of brass, and place it on high in the midst of the congregation. Then the word was sounded throughout the encampment that all who would look upon the serpent should live. The people well knew that in itself the serpent had no power to help them. It was a symbol of Christ. As the image made in the likeness of the destroying serpents was lifted up for their healing, so One made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" was to be their Redeemer. Rom. 8:3. Many of the Israelites regarded the sacrificial service as having in itself virtue to set them free from sin. God desired to teach them that it had no more value than that serpent of brass. It was to lead their minds to the Saviour. Whether for the healing of their wounds or the pardon of their sins, they could do nothing for themselves but show their faith in the Gift of God. They were to look and live. {DA 174.4} [The Desire of Ages (1898)]
This makes clear that Nicodemus understood the mission of the Messiah on account of the serpent illustration. It also makes plain the fact that the Israelites knew the serpent was not a charm, but only a symbol of the coming Savior. The sacrificial system, committed to Adam, was also perverted by his descendants. Superstition, idolatry, cruelty, and licentiousness corrupted the simple and significant service that God had appointed. Through long intercourse with idolaters the people of Israel had mingled many heathen customs with their worship; therefore the Lord gave them at Sinai definite instruction concerning the sacrificial service. After the completion of the tabernacle He communicated with Moses from the cloud of glory above the mercy seat, and gave him full directions concerning the system of offerings and the forms of worship to be maintained in the sanctuary. The ceremonial law was thus given to Moses, and by him written in a book. But the law of Ten Commandments spoken from Sinai had been written by God Himself on the tables of stone, and was sacredly preserved in the ark. {PP 364.3} [Patriarchs and Prophets (1890)]
The above statement leaves the matter unclear as to whom it was that delivered the instructions to Israel: God or Moses. God may have taught the people Himself from Mt. Sinai, or Moses may have given the instructions separately. In all these revelations of the divine presence the glory of God was manifested through Christ. Not alone at the Saviour's advent, but through all the ages after the Fall and the promise of redemption, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself." 2 Corinthians 5:19. Christ was the foundation and center of the sacrificial system in both the patriarchal and the Jewish age. Since the sin of our first parents there has been no direct communication between God and man. The Father has given the world into the hands of Christ, that through His mediatorial work He may redeem man and vindicate the authority and holiness of the law of God. All the communion between heaven and the fallen race has been through Christ. It was the Son of God that gave to our first parents the promise of redemption. It was He who revealed Himself to the patriarchs. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses understood the gospel. They looked for salvation through man's Substitute and Surety. These holy men of old held communion with the Saviour who was to come to our world in human flesh; and some of them talked with Christ and heavenly angels face to face. {PP 366.1} [Patriarchs and Prophets (1890)]
But it seems obvious, as this statement points out, that the plan of redemption had been explained by God to Adam and Eve when He first instructed them in the sacrifices. Moses would only have needed to refresh the people's memory. Blessings, Green Cochoa. GC, while I truly appreciate what you posted above, I did not see where you actually demonstrated that Moses clearly explained why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolized Jesus' death. Since Ellen said he understood it I have no problem believing that he did, however, it is also clear to me that he did not share it in print. If you didn't accept the first round, I am uncertain what I can say more that you would accept. To me, there is evidence. To you there is none. Seems we differ. Tom, pretend like I'm not here and post passages from the Pentateuch that clearly explain both aspects of the title question. I doubt you will honor this request since it is clear no such passages exist. Obviously, you've already made up your mind. Why keep asking us to be convinced against your will? As you would be of the same opinion still...worse yet, you would be arguing against the Bible in order to prove your earlier assertions. I think it best not to reinforce such leanings. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#110653
03/28/09 06:37 PM
03/28/09 06:37 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It is implied in this very brief story that an explanation was given to the children of Israel, in the form of necessary instructions for what to do. Yes, it is implied, but it wasn't recorded in the Pentateuch. That's the point. I don't know why you are unwilling to concede the point. There is nothing unfaithful or disloyal about admitting that Moses didn't record why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolize His death. Obviously it was handed down from generation to generation in the form of oral tradition.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Elle]
#110654
03/28/09 06:38 PM
03/28/09 06:38 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM, I don't see the whole point in your study. It seems you are dwelling in these type of talks to cast doubt on the Bible. Do you have any problem with the Bible? Is that why you hardly quote it? This is offensive.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Tom]
#110655
03/28/09 06:41 PM
03/28/09 06:41 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM, your request hasn't been refused. It's just that you repeat the same questions over and over again. Tom, please repost the post where you quoted from the Pentateuch that explains why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolize His death. Thank you.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110687
03/29/09 03:53 AM
03/29/09 03:53 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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MM, I don't see the whole point in your study. It seems you are dwelling in these type of talks to cast doubt on the Bible. Do you have any problem with the Bible? Is that why you hardly quote it?
This is offensive. Why?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110742
03/29/09 03:44 PM
03/29/09 03:44 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM, your request hasn't been refused. It's just that you repeat the same questions over and over again. Tom, please repost the post where you quoted from the Pentateuch that explains why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolize His death. Thank you.
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