The sin is not in the temptation, but in not rejecting it.

R: What I don't understand is what this discussion about sinful thoughts has to do with original sin. You believe that sinful thoughts and desires aren't sin just to be coherent with your view that Christ was born with sinful tendencies and that He had sinful thoughts and desires generated by these tendencies.
T: Pardon? I never said sinful thoughts and desires aren't sin.

Tom, you and I seem to be alone on this point. Everyone else here seems to think the fact you can be tempted is evidence you are sinning. Which I don't understand. I hope I am misunderstanding what is being said here.

Yes, conveniently and arbitrarily, you don't consider sinful the thoughts/desires which come from hereditary inclinations, because, according to you, they are involuntary.

Well, the thoughts and desires which come from cultivated inclinations are also involuntary, but they are, nonetheless, sinful.

If you say that spontaneous desires are not sinful, then homosexual desires are not sinful, the desire to smoke is not sinful, the desire to use drugs is not sinful, etc.

But, if these desires are not sinful, how can it be sinful to satisfy them?

Yes, conveniently and arbitrarily, you don't consider sinful the thoughts/desires which come from hereditary inclinations, because, according to you, they are involuntary. Well, the thoughts and desires which come from cultivated inclinations are also involuntary, but they are, nonetheless, sinful. If you say that spontaneous desires are not sinful, then homosexual desires are not sinful, the desire to smoke is not sinful, the desire to use drugs is not sinful, etc. But, if these desires are not sinful, how can it be sinful to satisfy them?

A youth is sent from a distant state to share the benefits of the college at Battle Creek. He goes forth from his home with the blessing of his parents upon his head. He has listened daily to the earnest prayers offered at the family altar, and he is apparently well started in a life of noble resolve and purity. His convictions and purposes when he leaves home are right. In Battle Creek he will meet with associates of all classes. He becomes acquainted with some whose example is a blessing to all who come within the sphere of their influence. Again, he meets with those who are apparently kind and interesting, and whose intelligence charms him; but they have a low standard of morality and no religious faith. For a time he resists every inducement to yield to temptation; but as he observes that those who profess to be Christians seem to enjoy the company of this irreligious class, his purposes and high resolves begin to waver. He enjoys the lively sallies and jovial spirit of these youth, and he is almost imperceptibly drawn more and more into their company. His stronghold seems to be giving way; his hitherto brave heart is growing weak. He is invited to accompany them for a walk, and they lead him to a saloon. Oysters or other refreshments are called for, and he is ashamed to draw away and refuse the treat. Having once overstepped the bounds, he goes again and again. A glass of beer is thought to be unobjectionable, and he accepts it; but still, with all, there are sharp twinges of conscience. He does not openly take his stand on the side of God and truth and righteousness; the society of the sly, deceptive class with which he is associated pleases him, and he is led a step further. His tempters urge that it is certainly harmless to play a game of cards and to watch the players in a billiard hall, and he yields repeatedly to the temptation. {4T 435.2}

Young men attend our college who, unsuspected by parents or guardians, hang about saloons, drink beer, and play cards and games in billiard halls. These things the students try to keep a profound secret among themselves; and professors and teachers are kept in ignorance of the satanic work going on. When this young man is enticed to pursue some evil course which must be kept secret, he has a battle with conscience; but inclination triumphs. He meant to be a Christian when he came to Battle Creek, but he is led steadily and surely in the downward road. Evil companions and seducers found among the youth of Sabbathkeeping parents, some of them living in Battle Creek, find that he can be tempted; and they secretly exult in their power and the fact that he is weak and will yield so readily to their seductive influences. They find that he can be shamed and confused by those who have had light and who have hardened their hearts in sin. Just such influences as these will be found wherever youth associate together. {4T 436.1}

The time will come when that young man who left his father's house pure and true, with noble purposes, will be ruined. He has learned to love the evil and reject the good. He did not realize his danger, not being armed with watchfulness and prayer. He did not place himself at once under the guardian care of the church. He was made to believe that it was manly to be independent, not allowing his liberty to be restricted. He was taught that to ignore rules and defy laws was to enjoy true freedom; that it was slavish to be always fearing and trembling lest he do wrong. He yielded to the influence of ungodly persons who, while carrying a fair exterior, were practicing deception, vileness, and iniquity; and he was despised and derided because he was so easily duped. He went where he could not expect to find the pure and the good. He learned ways of life and habits of speech which were not elevating and ennobling. Many are in danger of being thus lead away imperceptibly until they become degraded in their own estimation. In order to gain the applause of the heartless and ungodly, they are in danger of yielding the purity and nobleness of manhood, and of becoming slaves to Satan. {4T 436.2}

Some temptations are based on desires which are not sinful in themselves, but others are based on desires which are sinful in themselves.

No unholy thought and feeling = no temptation. Or, vice versa: the presence of an unholy thought and feeling = the presence of a temptation. In this way, all temptations begin as an unholy thought and feeling.

If you're saying believers gradually outgrow known sins through a process of sinning and repenting less and less intensely until they eventually cease repeating that particular sin - then, yes, I do not agree. I believe absolute and unbroken victory over a particular sin is available to us from the moment we confess and crucify it in light of the cross.

This is the part I’m unclear about what you believe. Are you suggesting we continue to be guilty of sin until our “old habits” totally die, until the temptations associated with them cease to tempt us? If so, how do you explain the fact Ellen repeatedly wrote that we shall have to combat inward corruption until the day Jesus arrives? See quotes below.

Yes, all unholy desires are sinful. It matters not if they originate with hereditary or cultivated tendencies (inclinations, propensities). Initially, though, all such desires are only temptations. They do not constitute sinning. There is a huge difference between something sinful and someone sinning.

I’m still not sure about what happens to the 144,000.

R: Yes, conveniently and arbitrarily, you don't consider sinful the thoughts/desires which come from hereditary inclinations, because, according to you, they are involuntary.
T: I wouldn't say it's convenient, but simply due to the fact that I, in addition to all our SDA forefathers, don't believe in original sin (except supposedly Ellen White, who held her beliefs in secret, while conveying the impression that she agreed with her colleagues).

R: Well, the thoughts and desires which come from cultivated inclinations are also involuntary, but they are, nonetheless, sinful.
T: If you believe in original sin.

R: If you say that spontaneous desires are not sinful, then homosexual desires are not sinful, the desire to smoke is not sinful, the desire to use drugs is not sinful, etc.
T: You're saying that homosexuality is a genetic problem? That it doesn't involve the will?