Yes to me that's how it seem to be His plan. There these words in Rev that might be implying this "repeat miniature of Jesus on the Cross", but I still don't have the full grasp of what it means


I think so. Two weeks ago, I started studying these, but I got taken buy other studies. I think you're on something and let's dig into it.

I couldn't find any link to the plagues and angels to the Mystery of Godliness. The bible does refer to the "mystery of Iniquity" and
In regards to the plagues, I don't know much beside that it happens and when. I do want to understand it more deeply. I will share with you later what I discovered in regards to the final destruction, as it is a topic in itself.

However, I see the Mystery of Godliness equivalent of the mystery of God that Pauls wrote about many time. He typically use the wording "mystery of God" and once he replace the word "God" for "Godliness", but he meant the same thing.


Yes, I see the sealing in relation to the "mystery of God". According to Paul's definition, the mystery of God is "Christ in you". It is no longer, I that lives, but Christ in me.

This is how I understand it:
1. right now the records of the dead in Christ are being judge in heaven.
2. Once this is finish, then next come the IJ of the one who are alive.
3. The 144,000 are the first to be sealed. Maybe, when Jesus start to open the books of deed of the living, he starts with those who profess to be Christians. That's what seems to be saying in the Bible. However, 144,000 are first sealed and it's before the Trumpets starts to sound. They are God's servants the prophets that are to give the last cry of the 3AM. I believe that God will reveal to them the gospel truth about Jesus Salvation very clear and I think that's the 7 thunders describe in Rev.
4. Then the trumpets are going to sound, one by one, in order given in the Bible. As the last cry is given with the 7 thunders in it's purity, clearness, using the Bible and speaking the words of the Holy Spirit, those who will confess that Christ is the only begotten son of God, and submit their will when confronted to a test, then they will be seal.
5. This sealing, which I fully don't grasp yet, has a dimension that there state of mind is unchangeable or preserve.
6. There is going to be a lot of people, a numberless multitude, that's going to respond to the Gospel purity.

Thanks for bringing these together. YES! I do see the link more clearly now. At the 6th Trumpet, that's when the 144,000 has finished prophesying and they will be slaughtered. Before that, there will be 1260 days of persecution, so many of the numberless multitude will already have been slaughtered. But the 144,000 are very special compare to the numberless multitude, because for 3 years(1260 days) they have prophesied like Jesus, and have partaken the mission to their death. They will have a special bond with Christ that no other will have.

Yes, I believe we can feel righteous and holy while we are abiding in Jesus. I also believe we will feel we have plenty of room to grow and mature in the fruits of the Spirit and that we will feel this way throughout eternity. I do not believe these two ideas are contradictory; instead, I think they are complimentary.

And, yes, we will ever be mindful that without Jesus and that outside of Him we are miserable, wretched sinners. And this is healthy to know and to remember. But I do not believe it is right or healthy to go around thinking we are miserable and wretched sinners while we are abiding in Jesus - because it simply isn't true. Listen:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings. Ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

wow!!!

well ill let you feel secure all by yourself and whoever wants to join you.

whenever i start feeling secure, or like im not "sinning", sure enough there comes a time when i find i was far away from God.

The chapter "It Is Finished" is such an amazing chapter. To try to grasp the meaning of Christ's death, it's just a gold mine. Here's how it ends:



This should answer your question!

Teresaq, how, then, do you recommend people read the passages I posted above?

Also, do you know of Scripture that describes an experience in Christ opposite of the passages I posted above?

And, do you feel secure and right with God when you feel like you're "sinning"?

Can we feel "righteous and holy" while seeing "our own moral deformity"? When Daniel and John saw an unfallen angel, they didn't look like they felt righteous and holy, even though they were abiding in Jesus.

This should also answer the question (if anyone here was asking) about the possibility of the last generation derailing God's plan by their unfaithfulness. On the cross, "the universe was made eternally secure." We're just in the finishing touches now.

i didnt catch the either/or mentality before. i can be aware that i am a "miserable, wretched sinners" without feeling miserable and wretched.

not measuring up might be a better description.

yeah, i think all my righteousness would turn to filthy rags if i were to see Jesus, too.

Arnold, I'm sure you couldn't help noticing that my posts above included this aspect of reality. It doesn't appear to me, though, that you are including the other side of the picture portrayed in the passages I posted above. Do you agree that they depict what I've been advocating here? If not, please explain why. Thank you.