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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Elle]
#111233
04/04/09 01:03 PM
04/04/09 01:03 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that William will go with "sin is transgression of the law."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#111241
04/04/09 08:53 PM
04/04/09 08:53 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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The Gospel according to ...Well this reply was laborous, however, quite rewarding to get into scripture. There's a lot of overlaps and more could of been said. But these questions were so many and for sure it can be expanded. However, nothing new here, Just an emphasis into on Jesus' Merits and for us to enter into BELIEF. Definition of SinG: I firmly believe victory is possible: Victory over every sin. ...we can be perfect. If this were not so, then Jesus would never have asked it of us.
Q1 E: what is the sin that you are referring to?
G: Every hereditary and cultivated defect of character. I don't believe in this, since hereditary and cultivated defect of character are hardcoded in our brain. I believe the victory over sin, is to believe in Him whom the Father has sent. I described in the previous post what that belief comprise. Here's some scripture that defines sin and justification. Rm 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Jn 16: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Rom 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Hbr 3:17-19 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Q2 E: What's the perfection are you referring to?
G: Living a sinless life. Well, I don't want to get in it too deeply, but Jesus has live the sinless life, so by having Jesus in us, The Father sees us as though we lived the perfect life. According to scripture, when Jesus Spirit dwells in us, we cannot sin. So as we move into faith habitually and put on Christ every day, we will experience the sanctification process as EGW describe. The closer we get to Christ, the more we see how wretched our character compared to God and the more we will depend on Him. The more we depend on him, the more we have crusified self, and we reflect Jesus. This is how we reflect Perfection in Character. It is not my character that shined forth, it is Christ's. Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Q3 E: What did Jesus actually asked of us?
G: That we stop trying to excuse our sins, stop thinking that we, as mere mortals, can never hope to life sin-free, and simply obey God's commandments. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Jesus, our example, lived a perfect life, without sin. He did it to show us how we may do the same. Well, according to scripture, Jesus said many times that it is to believe in Him. Horse before the cart analogy. It can't be the othe way around. If the order is maintain, and we put on Christ, then Christ both works in us to will and to do. Our CooperationQ4 E: What do you think EGW mean by cooperating? G: I'll let her answer that: The work of gaining salvation is one of copartnership, a joint operation. There is to be co-operation between God and the repentant sinner. This is necessary for the formation of right principles in the character. Man is to make earnest efforts to overcome that which hinders him from attaining to perfection. But he is wholly dependent upon God for success. Human effort of itself is not sufficient. Without the aid of divine power it avails nothing. God works and man works. Resistance of temptation must come from man, who must draw his power from God. On the one side there is infinite wisdom, compassion, and power; on the other, weakness, sinfulness, absolute helplessness. {AA 482.2} [The Acts of the Apostles (1911)] To me EGW is saying the cooperation is wholly dependant on God. Our effort is to step into belief, surrender our will, and let God do the rest to will and to do in us. The resistance of temptation describe is to put on the armor of God, which is Christ. Christ is the one who will resist for us. Put on Christ / Born Again / InDwelling Spirit / Mystery of GodE: Do you agree in the description of the born again man described by EGW in COL 98-99? Our cooperation extends by surrendering our will to the mind of Jesus. Then Jesus will work in us to will and to do.
That's why I want to make an emphasis on that it's Jesus 100% that wills in us, It's Jesus 100% that does in us, it's Jesus 100% life and blood that has justified us, etc... I'm not promoting to not keep the commandments, but to put on Christ who was the only divine-human man able to keep them.
G: The statement I quoted above does not appear to say it's Jesus "100%." Let me ask you, here, what does it mean to "put on Christ?" Put on Christ is the born again experience that is describe in COL 98-99 that I quoted. It is the "mystery of God" described many times in the NT which is Christ in us. This happens when we step into faith as written 1Jo 4. We need to be born again every day and some times many times a day. Just as Christ Glorified the Father by having the Father's Spirit in him; as so we will glorified Christ as we walk with His Spirit dwelling in us. 1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. E: I don't believe that Victory is possible. I believe that Victory has already been won. There's a difference. The first statement has no power, the other has all the power to overcome the world.
G: This is incorrect. Yes, a victory was won at the cross. There is no question but that the cross was a BIG victory, and required for our salvation. BUT...the cross was not the victory I need in my life. I am still struggling with sin. I am still fighting. The war is not over yet. The war you are experiencing is the members of your flesh that wars against the spirit of Christ that is in you. However, Jesus is not going to give you a incorruptible body until his 2nd coming. So you need to live by faith ALONE. Do not depend on how you feel, nor believe the lies of the devil, for Christ has already overcome the world. When these comes to you, you need to turn your eyes to Jesus and believe onto his promise with your lips and quote the Bible and confess/belief that Christ has already overcome. Jesus has already justified you, and you are no longer condemn. These are present facts as explained clearly by Paul. We absolutely need to believe in these. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Jn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: G: More significantly, if Christ had won all the victory that was necessary for me, should that not be also true for every soul that ever lived? How, then, is it that not everyone is saved? Is not Christ's blood sufficient for all? For sure Jesus sacrifice was sufficient and it was sufficient for everyone who ever lived. However, the free gift has to be claimed. That's why the requirement for salvation is "FAITH ONLY" and given to those who believe. 1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. E: Jesus has already lived the perfect life that justifies us. Jesus already resisted all temptation. Jesus already bared all our sin. The Father already accepted Jesus life and death and now sees us sinless, spotless and accepted us as Son of God. Jesus already died the death that was ours. Jesus has already overcame the devil and rendered him powerless. And so much more.... All is ours to those who believe.
G: When you say "Jesus had already lived a perfect life," do you mean that you are not now required to do so? E: Yes and No. Yes, that the Father only looks at Jesus life, and doesn't look at yours. What you do is not the requirement of salvation. Jn 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
2The 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 The 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 9: 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. because when you have the presence of the living God in you, you cannot sin. He will work in you to will and to do at His own pleasure. Does it matter if you have sin in your lifeQ2 G: When you say that "Jesus already [bore] all our sin," do you think it does not matter whether or not you still have sin in your life? E: All I know, that our body(including our brain) will not be changed(well, not that much) until Jesus 2nd coming. If you have Jesus Mind dwelling in you, then you will not sin. Scripture clearly states that many times. Also, sin is spiritual/moral, not physical. See the definition of Sin above for the scripture text. Overcomming the DevilQ3 G: When you say "Jesus has already [overcome] the devil and rendered him powerless," does this mean that you and I need not overcome the devil? Why does the Scripture say, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you?" E: Scripture plainly says that Jesus overcame the devil. He has no authority over us. Wherever the devil was around Jesus, He trembled and with a single word from Jesus, He flee. The diciples were sent to cast out evil spirit from the captives in the name of Jesus. They were successful as long as they believed in Jesus. However, the devil is a master deceiver. He's trying to persuade you and I(which he's very successful) that their is still a war and you need to fight him. He knows that you cannot fight the devil and when we try with our might, then we dishonor Christ and the Devils laughs at us. Jesus already overcame him. When you have Christ in you, and if Satan challenges you, you quote scripture like Zech 3:2 "The Lord rebuke you Satan" and he will flee from you. This is how you resist the devil deception by putting on the armor of God. 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. E: The question is do we believe these? When we pray or talk or write, is this belief in our language? If it's not, then we're not walking in the faith and confessing Christ.
Pastor Liversidge says, our biggest lack is that we don't move into faith every morning. Our confession of faith is weak if existent. Our prayers should be marked with faith by thanking God and claiming all that he has established through the life and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Acknowledging our inability, our lack of power, our condition...and our need of Jesus. Then the mystery of God happens, and God's spirit dwells in us, to will and to do.
G: We must have faith. But we must be careful where we place that faith. I do not believe some of the things others may choose to believe on this issue. There are many in the church today who say simply "God's grace is sufficient," and who use this as a cover for their imperfect lives.
Mrs. White was clear. She says there is no excuse for sinning. She says those who are preparing for translation to heaven must overcome every defect of character. She says Christ's robe of righteousness will not cover over blemishes in our character. I'll find the statements later, if you wish. (I'm in a hurry again.) I understand that people can go to the other extreme with this gospel. If there's no fruits, well they are not stepping into belief, and Christ is not in them. However, when we do step into belief, then we are victorious, because Christ is victorious. Our mind will be renewed every day as we continually step into belief, or another way to put it, as we get reborn every day. We shouldn't go to the other extreme where we do not have the true faith and try to change ourselves with our works. Both extremes doesn't please God. God wants to see faith in Jesus. That's how we honor the Father and glorify Christ. When we Glorify Christ, that's when the world will know that God loved them. And that's when all will be finish, and Christ will come.
Blessings
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Elle]
#111247
04/05/09 01:03 AM
04/05/09 01:03 AM
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SDA
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The Orient
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The Gospel according to ...Well this reply was laborous, however, quite rewarding to get into scripture. There's a lot of overlaps and more could of been said. But these questions were so many and for sure it can be expanded. However, nothing new here, Just an emphasis into on Jesus' Merits and for us to enter into BELIEF. Definition of SinG: I firmly believe victory is possible: Victory over every sin. ...we can be perfect. If this were not so, then Jesus would never have asked it of us.
Q1 E: what is the sin that you are referring to?
G: Every hereditary and cultivated defect of character. I don't believe in this, since hereditary and cultivated defect of character are hardcoded in our brain. I believe the victory over sin, is to believe in Him whom the Father has sent. I described in the previous post what that belief comprise. Perhaps you don't believe in it from my words. Let me quote Mrs. White: Those who come up to every point, and stand every test, and overcome, be the price what it may, have heeded the counsel of the True Witness, and they will receive the latter rain, and thus be fitted for translation. {LHU 375.2}
There is to be a people fitted up for translation to heaven, whom Enoch represents. They are looking and waiting for the coming of the Lord. The work will go on with all those who will cooperate with Jesus in the work of redemption. He gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. God has made every provision that they should be intelligent Christians, filled with a knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. {TSB 86.3}
A theoretical knowledge of the truth is essential, but the knowledge of the greatest truth will not save us; our knowledge must be practical. God's people must not only know His will, but they must practice it. Many will be purged out from the numbers of those who know the truth, because they are not sanctified by it. The truth must be brought into their hearts, sanctifying and cleansing them from all earthliness and sensuality in the most private life. The soul temple must be cleansed. Every secret act is as if we were in the presence of God and holy angels, as all things are open before God, and from Him nothing can be hid. {TSB 86.4}
The truth is designed to elevate the receiver, to refine his taste and sanctify his judgment. There should be a continual aim to imitate the society we expect soon to associate with--angels of God who have never fallen by sin. Our characters should be holy, our manners comely, our words without guile, and we should go on step by step until we are all fitted for translation. There is a work to be done to attain to this. Add to our faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, etc.--Letter 18, 1861, pp. 2, 3. (To Brother H. G. Buck, January 19, 1861.) {5MR 293.1}
The Bible says, "To him that overcometh will I give will I give to eat of the tree of life." (Rev. 2:7) And "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Rev. 2:11) Obviously, then, overcoming is something we are asked to do. Does God help us in this work? Certainly. Does it still require effort on a part? It sure does. Listen: In consideration of the shortness of time we as a people should watch and pray, and in no case allow ourselves to be diverted from the solemn work of preparation for the great event before us. Because the time is apparently extended, many have become careless and indifferent in regard to their words and actions. They do not realize their danger and do not see and understand the mercy of our God in lengthening their probation, that they may have time to form characters for the future, immortal life. Every moment is of the highest value. Time is granted them, not to be employed in studying their own ease and becoming dwellers on the earth, but to be used in the work of overcoming every defect in their own characters and in helping others, by example and personal effort, to see the beauty of holiness. God has a people upon the earth who in faith and holy hope are tracing down the roll of fast-fulfilling prophecy and are seeking to purify their souls by obeying the truth, that they may not be found without the wedding garment when Christ shall appear. . . . The signs foretold in prophecy are fast fulfilling around us. This should arouse every true follower of Christ to zealous action (Testimonies, vol. 4, pp. 306, 307). Here's some scripture that defines sin and justification.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
The balancing statement to Paul is in James: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Christ lived a perfect life as our example. If it were not to be an EXAMPLE for us, but merely a SUBSTITUTE, since we "cannot" do it, then it would seem God has not the power to do what He says He will do...to put a "new heart" in us and to cause us to "walk in His ways." Enough for now... Blessings, Green Cochoa.
Last edited by Green Cochoa; 04/05/09 01:05 AM.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#111250
04/05/09 03:06 AM
04/05/09 03:06 AM
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Active Member 2012
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The following makes clear that we can gain the victory of "the bias to evil." The Victory May Be Gained.--Through the cultivation of righteous principles, man may gain the victory over the bias to evil. If he is obedient to the law of God, the senses are no longer warped and twisted; the faculties are no longer perverted and wasted by being exercised on objects that are of a character to lead away from God. In and through the grace bestowed by Heaven, the words, the thoughts, and the energies may be purified; a new character may be formed, and the debasement of sin overcome.--MS 60, 1905. {1MCP 30.4}
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Tom]
#111251
04/05/09 03:18 AM
04/05/09 03:18 AM
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G: When you say "Jesus had already lived a perfect life," do you mean that you are not now required to do so?
E: Yes and No.
Yes, that the Father only looks at Jesus life, and doesn't look at yours. But our problem is not and never has been how the Father looks at us. Of course, God sees us as we really are. Our problem is not how God sees us, but how we see God. No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.(John 1:18) In order to understand the solution, we need to first understand the problem. What's the problem? How does Satan gain power over his victims? Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world. (DA 21, 22) Satan holds power by means of deception. His own evil characteristics he depicts as being God's. By believing these lies, he leads us to sin. The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force....Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. (ibid) Jesus Christ came to show us what God is really like. Only He who knew God could fully reveal God. Revealing God was the whole purpose of Christ's mission. This was to the end that He might set us right with God: Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.(ST 1/20/90; emphasis mine) We are justified, or set right with God, when we receive into our hearts the revelation of God manifested by Jesus Christ. How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. (DA 175, 176) This starts out by asking how one can be saved. The answer is by responding to the love of God revealed at the cross, which leads one to the foot of the cross in repentance. The love of God leads us to choose to be reconciled to God, by faith believing that God has forgiven us, loves us, and receives us into His family. We are born again, transformed, changed, where once we believed the enemy's lies, leading us to be at enmity with God, but after believing we are reconciled.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Tom]
#111253
04/05/09 03:24 AM
04/05/09 03:24 AM
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Yes, Tom. It sure does seem clear. As a young man, one of my favorite chapters in the Bible was always Psalm 119. I tried to memorize it. If 1 Corinthians 13 is the "Love Chapter" of the Bible, perhaps Psalm 119 is the "Righteousness by Faith" chapter of Bible...though most people would view it more as the "Law" chapter, I suppose. Listen to these beautiful promises, though... Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. (Psalms 119:1, KJV)
Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. (Psalms 119:2, KJV)
They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways. (Psalms 119:3, KJV)
Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. (Psalms 119:4, KJV)
O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! (Psalms 119:5, KJV)
Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments. (Psalms 119:6, KJV)
I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments. (Psalms 119:7, KJV)
I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly. (Psalms 119:8, KJV)
And that's just the beginning of it! Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#111254
04/05/09 03:36 AM
04/05/09 03:36 AM
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The following short statement from Ellen White serves as the foundation of my belief on the issue of overcoming. Effort Proportionate to Object of Pursuit.--The thoughts must be centered upon God. We must put forth earnest effort to overcome the evil tendencies of the natural heart. Our efforts, our self-denial and perseverance, must be proportionate to the infinite value of the object of which we are in pursuit. Only by overcoming as Christ overcame shall we win the crown of life.--MH 455 (1905). {2MCP 666.6} So, back to the topic of this thread...since the operative phrase above seems to be "as Christ overcame." Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Tom]
#111261
04/05/09 05:50 AM
04/05/09 05:50 AM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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G: When you say "Jesus had already lived a perfect life," do you mean that you are not now required to do so?
E: Yes and No.
Yes, that the Father only looks at Jesus life, and doesn't look at yours. But our problem is not and never has been how the Father looks at us. Of course, God sees us as we really are. Our problem is not how God sees us, but how we see God. No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.(John 1:18) In order to understand the solution, we need to first understand the problem. What's the problem? How does Satan gain power over his victims? Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world. (DA 21, 22) Satan holds power by means of deception. His own evil characteristics he depicts as being God's. By believing these lies, he leads us to sin. The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force....Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. (ibid) Jesus Christ came to show us what God is really like. Only He who knew God could fully reveal God. Revealing God was the whole purpose of Christ's mission. This was to the end that He might set us right with God: Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.(ST 1/20/90; emphasis mine) We are justified, or set right with God, when we receive into our hearts the revelation of God manifested by Jesus Christ. How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. (DA 175, 176) This starts out by asking how one can be saved. The answer is by responding to the love of God revealed at the cross, which leads one to the foot of the cross in repentance. The love of God leads us to choose to be reconciled to God, by faith believing that God has forgiven us, loves us, and receives us into His family. We are born again, transformed, changed, where once we believed the enemy's lies, leading us to be at enmity with God, but after believing we are reconciled. We are natural sinners, in sin we were born, Satan needs nothing to do, beacuse living by the flesh is our very natural life. all what we desires is to satisfy the flesh. Satan can sleep forever doing nothing, and we will all go to hell, we are not worthy for heaven, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Only when we are attracted to the Gospel, he wakes up and pay attention to us, and goes to work to maintain his claws in us. Is Jesus same like me? Born in the flesh of men after the fall? Born in "sin" just like all of us. What differs he from us? His sinless mind? Then he is not one of us, because we are all born in sin, our mind is of the flesh, that is our natural mind. Therefore, in order to maintain a sinless life, we need faith in God and the power of his Spirit. Does Christ' need the same? The bible and SOP say YES! He has emptied himself and live by faith in his Father. Does this mean, that he too was born with a sinner's mind, the mind of the flesh, and only through the power of God he got victory over the flesh, just like us? If not so, how could he knew of our natural life, our desires, our sins? Because he is God? Does God knew what sin is? How could he knew without ever experiiencing it? If he has a vague idea about what sin is, how could he help us who were born in sin, and living a natural life of sin? Rome 8:3 says that Christ were born in the same flesh as us, who were of sin. he knew our desires because he desired the same? In His love james S in His love
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Tom]
#111264
04/05/09 06:35 AM
04/05/09 06:35 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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But our problem is not and never has been how the Father looks at us. Of course, God sees us as we really are. Our problem is not how God sees us, but how we see God. Did Jesus have the same problem?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Christ Desired and Lusted to Sin?
[Re: Tom]
#111265
04/05/09 06:39 AM
04/05/09 06:39 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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If anyone is born of God, he cannot sin. John says so. Is this a joke? If not, please read the context. This isn't what John is saying. I think it is: Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.(1 John 3:9) The question is, what is this "sin" that he "cannot" commit?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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