Actually, the Scripture you are inferring here makes it clear our righteousness is filthy rags to start off with - it doesn't turn into filthy rags when we appear in the presence in Jesus. Obviously, therefore, God has something else in mind in the passages I posted above. Do you see what I mean?

Do you agree, then, with what I posted above? Or, is something I said you aren't quite comfortable with?

Also, do you think feeling like you aren't measuring up is right and healthy? Or, did you have something else in mind?

I'm on the same page with Teresa. I think your ideas here are truly frightening. I recall Ellen White speaking of herself, referring to how she lamented not better reflecting the Master (I can't recall her exact words well enough to find the quote), but it reflected the humility one would expect in a follower of Christ.

As we look to Christ, we see our own unworthiness. As long as we live, our prayer should be, "God, be merciful to me, a sinner." Our only hope is in God's great mercy, grace and love. Not in our own ability to do anything, least of all "measure up."

i couldnt find the words. thank you.

But the Spirit of Prophecy DOES say things like this:

Ellen G. White Estate
Faith and Works (1979), page 37, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Christ Our Righteousness
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," even so was "the Son of man . . . lifted up: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14, 15). If you are conscious of your sins, do not devote all your powers to mourning over them, but look and live. Jesus is our only Saviour; and although millions who need to be healed will reject His offered mercy, not one who trusts in His merits will be left to perish. While we realize our helpless condition without Christ, we must not be discouraged; we must rely upon a crucified and risen Saviour. Poor, sin-sick, discouraged soul, look and live. Jesus has pledged His word; He will save all who come unto Him.

That one ays though we know we are sinful we arent supposed to FOCUS on that.

Here is another:

Ellen G. White Estate
(Australasian) Union Conference Record, May 6, 1907, paragraph 2
Article Title: Are You Light-bearers?-
The lower lights must be kept burning. Jesus is the great light which lights up every man that comes into the world. All heaven is interested in the conflict that is going on in this world between truth and error, light and darkness. The great Source of all light is constantly shining, and those who will catch His rays, and will reflect them upon others, will be light-bearers in this darkened world. We are not pleasing God when we permit our minds to dwell upon our imperfections, mourning constantly over our condition, with our eyes directed continually upon our mistakes and errors. Come to Jesus; He is the light of the world. Take hold of His strength by faith and make peace with Him. Shall you talk of your weakness?--No; no: for that pleases the enemy. Dwell upon the great help that has been provided for you in Jesus, your Redeemer.

Ellen G. White Estate
The Bible Echo, July 2, 1894, paragraph 1
Article Title: Not Self, But Christ.-Mrs. E. G. White.
It is in looking upon our sinful condition, and talking and mourning over our wretchedness, that distress becomes more keen, and pain accumulates. Let the sinner arise in the strength of Jesus; for he has no strength of his own, and let him assert his liberty. Let him believe that the Lord has spoken truth, and trust in Him, whatever may be the feelings of the heart. Let the sinner say, I will look away from my own misery, from the wound of the serpent, to the uplifted Saviour, who has said, "Him that cometh to Me, I will in nowise cast out." Look upon Jesus. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

So if we keep on focusing upon our deformities this isnt going to do us any good. We actually do in a way need to "feel" good about ourselves because we are relying upon the merits of Christ and we realize God sees Jesus when He looks at us, right?

True, we are called to overcome sin and obey God. And by God's grace, it can be accomplished.

But there are shades of meaning and varying degrees of overcoming and obeying. The obedience required of the high priest is not the same as that required of the toddler. But to our discussion at hand, the high priest should have a much clearer view of the magnitude of God's glory that he should have a much clearer view of his shortcomings.


When we get a good view of God's glory, and truly desire to reflect it in our own character, His light will clearly reveal that we fall short of His glory.

If we focus on our sins, we are not looking at Jesus because in Him there is no sin. So that's definitely a bad plan. Our focus must be Jesus and His matchless charms.

The seeming paradox is that if we look at ourselves, we will gradually get used to seeing the sin and lose sight of the holiness that we are called to experience. IOW, we will start feeling that we are doing fine. Why? Because we will have no idea what "fine" really means.

In contrast, when we look at Jesus, we will see what true holiness is, and we will see very clearly how far we fall short of it. That will not make us feel very holy.

But here's what we must remember: Feeling is not a safe guide. Often, it has no basis in reality.

When we see holiness, we will feel very unholy. But regardless of that, we can still rejoice because if we are abiding in Christ, His character stands in the place of our own, and we are deemed just because of His merits and for His sake. And that rejoicing comes, not from feeling, but from hearing the word of God.

Actually, that's the definition of sanctification. So it's a good sign. But we need to constantly remember that it is through Jesus that we are justified as Scripture tells us.

I think I see what you mean. While we dont want to focus on our sins because that wont get us anywhere, its by beholding we become changed... beholding Christ, we should have confidence in the merits of Christ, but at the same time when we look at Jesus this makes us see our own shortcomings so that we will know what needs changing. So we dont want to be smug or well I dont know what the word for it is. Like the Pharisee verses the Publican story.

And yes I agree, we should never go by "feelings". Good or bad.

it sounds like there are some who can only see an either/or and not a third path.

no one, as far as i know, is saying anything about "focusing on our deformities". to the contrary. as we look at Jesus, really look at Jesus, we become more and more conscious of our deformities. but we are always to keep our eyes and Jesus, study His life, meditate on it, and in so doing as well as appropriating the bible promises we become more and more like Him.