i didnt catch that!!

no, i have only a fraction of a fraction of the messenger of the Lords understanding, if that!

Be at a disadvantage no more! Check out this link: Victory in Jesus

Disclaimer: I may or may not agree with anything or everything on that web site. The same goes for Liversidge's message. I have not tried out the links myself. So watch out for malware. Practice safe web. Download and listen/read at your own risk.

I have heard it said that "we are saved by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone." I have also heard it said that if we confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved.

Perhaps "believe" is a little more slippery than we usually think of. I like John's version of "believe" in 1Jn 5:1-5. And I won't be surprised if Elle's version is very similar.

The justification that results from accepting Jesus as our Saviour always comes with the sanctification that results from accepting Jesus as our Lord. Half a Jesus is no Jesus at all.

Speaking of Ellen White, I like what she says here:



The whole purpose of Christ's mission on earth was the revelation of God, through which mean are set right (or justified) with God.

Thanks Arnold, I didn't know it was available to download on-line. Ooooh! am so grateful for that. It's such a powerfull message. I was so blessed with it. Now I can just link people there instead of typing everything down. Of course, because it comes from an un-accredited individual that has a hard time to express herself, many on the forum didn't believes me anyway. It's ok, it was a great exercise to find scriptures and review the gospel and be blessed again. I would redo it any day.

Arnold, I agree with Tom. Do you see the difference the way Tom and I do?

Oops! I see where I already addressed Arnold's post. Here it is:


Arnold, I am in total agreement with Tom on this point. Yes, Jesus had a “bent to evil” in that He took upon Himself our sinful flesh nature. Having a “bent to evil” in this sense in no way means Jesus Himself was inclined to evil or desired to sin. It’s like the difference between believers partaking of the divine nature being divine in nature.

IOW, just because we partake of the divine nature and are able to work the works of God it does not mean we are divine in nature. In the same way, just because Jesus took upon Himself our sinful flesh nature and had to resolutely resist its inherent, natural clamorings for sin it does not mean He was sinful in nature. Nor does it mean having sinful flesh nature corrupted or contaminated Him in any way.

Of course the same is true of born again believers who are abiding in Jesus and who have reached the point where, like Jesus, they are living in perfect harmony with everything Jesus commanded and exemplified in His life and teachings. That is, having sinful flesh nature in no way corrupts or contaminates them. They are in the sight of God spotless, blameless, and without fault or guile. Amen! Thank you Jesus!

This is not to say that those who reach “the sinless condition in which Adam lived before the Fall” (described above) have divested themselves of the bent to evil they inherited at birth (i.e. sinful flesh nature). Sister White makes it painfully clear that we shall have to fight “to subdue and to subject” (not eliminate) our inherited inclination to sin to a sanctified will and mind for as long as we draw breath this side of Paradise Restored. Again, no one is corrupted or contaminated who wages such warfare successfully in Christ.

Do you agree?

PS - Teresaq wrote, "a bent toward evil implies wanting evil". I agree in the sense sinful flesh truly does "want" us to express and experience our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. For those who are abiding in Jesus it not they who want to sin but rather it is their sinful flesh that wants them to sin. Of course sinful flesh cannot actually commit a sin; but it can, and does so vehemently, communicate to us its insatiable desire for us to sin. Is this how you see it?

I enjoyed reading what you all had to say about victory in Jesus. Most of the people I meet are operating under assumption that it is *not* possible in this lifetime to reach the point where their thoughts, words, and deeds are in perfect harmony with God's will. They believe Jesus makes up for their unavoidable sins and that it is in this sense that God considers them sinless and safe to save.

Has anyone here ever met anyone who believes this way? If so, how did you deal with it?

Mike,

???
Are your thoughts, words and deeds in perfect harmony with God's will?

Not a negative question, actually. One answer might be that it doesn't matter whether I myself am "perfect" or not.

Some might thoughtfully argue what ultimately matters most is that the Bible teaches sinless perfection and, like translated Enoch, who did in fact faithfully follow Christ right into heaven, the final generation will thus do likewise.

And, apparently, there are Enoch's in our day. Positive idea, we'd all agree. Well, Mike? Kidding.

William