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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Tom]
#111362
04/08/09 02:17 AM
04/08/09 02:17 AM
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If this is so, and I am not saying it isn't, wouldn't this have given Jesus an advantage over Eve, Adam, and the rest of us? Arnold was saying Jesus *wasn't* omniscient, so He would have had an advantage of us, since we aren't omniscient either.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Tom]
#111363
04/08/09 02:20 AM
04/08/09 02:20 AM
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John 10:18 is the text that came to my mind as well. There's also the one that Rosangela mentioned earlier where Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and after three days I will raise it up." Both of these seems to be in perfect harmony with Ellen White's comments.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Elle]
#111364
04/08/09 02:28 AM
04/08/09 02:28 AM
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Rosangela you're saying that Jesus posseses all His divine attributes (omni-present, omniscience, immortality...)when he was on earth. Then that pose a problem, because He did not come on this earth like one of us. some verses: Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Mar 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Jesus was one lone man, in appearance like any other man. how was he able to drive out all those able-bodied men in the temple? when Jesus said, i am, why did those who came out to get him fall to the ground? With holding to what we were taught will make this study a dead end. are you assuming that none of us have already studied this out? that we are just repeating what we have been "taught"?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: teresaq]
#111368
04/08/09 03:08 AM
04/08/09 03:08 AM
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Rosangela you're saying that Jesus posseses all His divine attributes (omni-present, omniscience, immortality...)when he was on earth. Then that pose a problem, because He did not come on this earth like one of us. some verses: Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. The Father provided Jesus with foresight when it was necessary. Jesus does the same with us with dreams, visions, or even just thoughts. Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Mar 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. Same as above. We also at times, can know what others thinks. Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Jesus was one lone man, in appearance like any other man. how was he able to drive out all those able-bodied men in the temple? when Jesus said, i am, why did those who came out to get him fall to the ground? Jesus had authority. Jesus always remained the Son of God. Elle: With holding to what we were taught will make this study a dead end. Teresa: are you assuming that none of us have already studied this out? that we are just repeating what we have been "taught"? I'm not assuming anything. I meant what I said. I pointed out a problem in thinking Jesus had immortality and mortality at the same time. I'm suggesting that new light can be grasp, however, if you have already studied it and you are happy with what you know. Then good for you, but I think you should let others study if they want to dig further.
Blessings
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Tom]
#111373
04/08/09 03:52 AM
04/08/09 03:52 AM
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Hence, it is harder for such to avoid sin because he likes it. Harder than for Christ? Of course. The sinner who likes sin would have a much more difficult time rejecting than Jesus whose nature recoiled from evil. It's just like my wife, compared to me, has a much harder time avoiding avocados because she likes it, while just the thought of it entering my mouth makes me want to throw up. Don't you agree that it's much harder for her to avoid avocados?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Tom]
#111374
04/08/09 03:58 AM
04/08/09 03:58 AM
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if the reason that God doesn't do bad things is simply because He is omniscient, that's not a very good reason IMO. You might have missed this part: "That omniscience, combined with His wisdom and unselfishness, keeps Him from wanting to have any part of sin." Omniscience by itself is no guard against sin. In fact, it could tend toward sin. Back in the day, I had a good idea what goes on in dance clubs. That did not deter me; it attracted me. So, your logic is valid, but it is missing a crucial premise: God is wise and unselfish.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Rosangela]
#111375
04/08/09 04:02 AM
04/08/09 04:02 AM
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Let me repeat what Arnold has already said in his last post. If the absence of sinful tendencies in the person prevented that person from being tempted, how is it that the angels in heaven, as well as Adam and Eve, were tempted? Thanks. That hits the spot. By the way, what I said was that the sinful desire is sin, as the tenth commandment points out, and that, as I see it, internal temptations are accompanied by sinful desires. Ah, the often-overlooked 10th commandment. It commands against the corrupt desire. This is the one that pointed out to Paul that he was a sinner, in spite of his outward compliance to the law. The need for inward holiness is still getting shortchanged to this day.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Daryl]
#111376
04/08/09 04:31 AM
04/08/09 04:31 AM
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Jesus, while incarnate, was not omniscient. He could not see the end from the beginning. He couldn't even see what He was going to do for the rest of the day, but relied on God telling Him what to do. IOW, Jesus used God's omniscience to keep Him from sinning. But on His own, He was not omniscient and could be fooled into thinking that some benefit could be gained from sinning.
If this is so, and I am not saying it isn't, wouldn't this have given Jesus an advantage over Eve, Adam, and the rest of us? It gives Him an advantage over everyone who does not listen to God as well as He did. If we would but listen to God instead of our own selfish lusts, we would all be much better off.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Tom]
#111377
04/08/09 04:33 AM
04/08/09 04:33 AM
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Do "true believers" "consent" to having "corrupt channels of humanity"?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Immortality and Jesus Death on the Cross & Jesus Divine Nature on Earth
[Re: Elle]
#111378
04/08/09 05:01 AM
04/08/09 05:01 AM
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what scriptures do you see as proving the conclusions you come to regarding these texts? i cant see anything to gain in trying to explain them away. actually it scares me to try and reason them away. but then i hear some who are in serious error on a regular basis. it tends to keep me in prayer...... Mar 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? you know when "virtue" goes out of yourself? what virtue might that be?  Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
elle: Jesus had authority. Jesus always remained the Son of God.
Dan 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
Dan 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Dan 10:7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
Dan 10:9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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