is it possible for a sunday keeper to be "abiding in Jesus"?
is he sinning by keeping sunday instead of the sabbath if he does not know about the sabbath?

is it possible for a heathen to be "abiding in Jesus" even tho he knows nothing of the bible or Jesus?

is it possible we have a very low estimate of what true sin is?

is it possible the Holy Spirit could be trying to convict us of sin but we do not see it as such? or do not see that we are guilty?

Yes to all three questions. Are you assuming John had these people in mind when he wrote 1 John 3:6-9? Or, did he have fully informed people in mind?


Yes to both questions. But again are you assuming John had these people in mind when he wrote 1 John 3:6-9? Or, did he have fully informed people in mind?

i would rather not make any assumptions about what kind of people john had in mind, especially not in my faulty, fallen, human state. i also believe it best to not try to "make the scriptures fit together" for the same reason.

wouldnt you agree?

I understand what you're saying about falling short of God's glory. Infinite glory is hard to equal.

However, that's not what the SL 81 quote is talking about. Let's take a closer look at the quote:
Let's dissect it a bit.

subject: "he who is truly seeking for holiness of heart and life"
predicate: "falls so far short of meeting its requirements"
antecedent of "it" in the predicate: "law of God"

What does it mean? One who truly seeks holiness falls short of the requirements of God's law, and he knows it.

It's not talking about falling short of God's GLORY, but falling short of the REQUIREMENTS OF GOD'S LAW. And failing to meet the requirements of God's law is sin, isn't it? The SC quotes I posted earlier in this thread teaches the same thing.

So how does that fit in with 1Jn 3:9?

Here's the quote I was talking about:

Assumptions are unnecessary. The word of God is too plain to misunderstand. Neither do we have to force passages to fit together. "Here a little and there a little." God is saying the same thing from Genesis to Revelation, from Acts of the Apostles to Welfare Ministry.

BTW, since you are unwilling to say John had a certain type of believer in mind to the exclusion of other types, is it safe to say it is possible he did?

Is it “hard” or impossible? Listen - Christ is our pattern, the perfect and holy example that has been given us to follow. We can never equal the Pattern, but we may imitate and resemble it according to our ability. {TMK 265.2}


Here’s the context of the quote:

Those who have genuine love for God will manifest an earnest desire to know His will and to do it. Says the apostle John, whose epistles treat so fully upon love, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 5:3). The child who loves his parents will show that love by willing obedience; but the selfish, ungrateful child seeks to do as little as possible for his parents, while he at the same time desires to enjoy all the privileges granted to the obedient and faithful. The same difference is seen among those who profess to be children of God. Many who know that they are the objects of His love and care, and who desire to receive His blessing, take no delight in doing His will. They regard God's claims upon them as an unpleasant restraint, His commandments as a grievous yoke. But he who is truly seeking for holiness of heart and life delights in the law of God, and mourns only that he falls so far short of meeting its requirements. {SL 81.1}

In this passage Ellen is contrasting those who obey and disobey the law of God. Those who realize they fall far short of meeting the requirements of the law are not admitting that they are transgressing the law. Ellen is not saying they are sinning. Instead, falling short is a reference to their immaturity, the difference between babes and seasoned saints, the difference between moonlight and sunlight. Eternity isn’t long enough to exhaust our ability and potential to become more and more like Jesus. Amen!

Also, the law envisions the kind of obedience and maturity that Jesus demonstrated while here in the flesh. Compared to Jesus we fall far short, way short. However, the difference between the level of maturity Jesus reached and our current level of maturity is not measured in terms of sin and darkness but rather in terms of light and righteousness. Just as there are degrees of sins, so too, there are degrees of righteousness. “God does not regard all sins as of equal magnitude; there are degrees of guilt in His estimation . . . {SC 30.1}


Again, she isn’t saying they are committing sins. Realizing we have defects, weaknesses, and imperfections is not the same thing as saying we are guilty of indulging them. You seem to think it is. Why?

I need to polish my skill in the art of understatement. Perhaps William can tutor me.

Anyway, yes, it is impossible.


For months now you have been defending your teaching that we are morally perfect when we are born again. But you also believe that we will spend eternity failing to meet the requirements of God's law. We surely do not see eye-to-eye on basic definitions of "moral perfection" and "God's law." Failure to meet the requirements of God's law is a sin, and is moral IMperfection.


Some phrases from the quote:
its own sinfulness
moral deformity

While those should not necessarily be classified as "committing sins" they are sins nonetheless. (We non-postlaps believe that sin encompasses more than just what we do or do not commit.)

Don't you think the people described in the quote - the soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ - are born again? How do you reconcile the fact that they are morally deformed, and your belief that they are morally perfect?

The question of sin is a deep one. Certainly the context is important to take into account when considering inspired statements.

At any rate, here is something one well known postlap said regarding sin:

He had in mind people who believed in Christ. What he wrote had nothing at all to do with being "informed." John was talking about love (read the chapter for the context). John was saying that a person who believes in Christ will obey His commandment to love. Love is not dependent upon being "fully informed" but upon a transformation of heart.

It would be absurd to suggest that Sunday-keepers cannot be transformed by Christ and obey His commandment to love.