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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: Mountain Man] #111697
04/13/09 02:38 PM
04/13/09 02:38 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
From Waggoner again:

Quote:
Much is lost, in reading the Scriptures, by not noting exactly what they say. Here we have literally, "the faith of Christ," just as in Rev.14:12 we have "the faith of Jesus." He is the Author and Finisher of faith. Heb.12:2. God has "dealt to every man the measure of faith" (Rom.12:3), in giving Christ to every man. "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Rom.10:17), and Christ is the Word. All things are of God. It is He who gives repentance and forgiveness of sins.

There is, therefore, no opportunity for any one to plead that his faith is weak. He may not have accepted and made use of the gift, but there is no such thing as "weak faith." A man may be "weak in faith," that is, may be afraid to depend on faith, but faith itself is as strong as the Word of God. There is no faith but the faith of Christ; everything else professing to be faith is a spurious article.


In a similar way we can say, "There is no righteousness, but the righteousness of Christ." God brings us faith (or righteousness, or whatever else we need that comes from Christ) by bringing us Christ. This looks to be what Waggoner is saying.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: Rosangela] #111752
04/14/09 07:08 PM
04/14/09 07:08 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
I see this a little differently. Ellen White presents the faith spoken of in Rev. 14:12 as essentially faith for salvation, something which doesn't apply to Christ. She points out that in the third angel's message we have the law (the commandments of God) and the gospel (the faith of Jesus).
Of course faith is also necessary to keep the commandments of God, and this could find a parallel in Christ's experience but, as I said, I see Ellen White's main emphasis here as being faith in Christ as the sinners' only hope of salvation (justification).


no, Christ didnt need to rely on the Father for salvation but since He refused to use His powers to keep Himself and relied utterly on the Father as our example which is in keeping with what the messenger of the Lord said.

we dont have any powers in ourself to rely on. but we have the example of Jesus strength.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: teresaq] #111754
04/14/09 07:36 PM
04/14/09 07:36 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Christ did not to rely on the Father for salvation. For example:

Quote:
6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

9I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

10I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

11Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.

12For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

13Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. (Psalm 40)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: Tom] #111755
04/14/09 07:59 PM
04/14/09 07:59 PM
teresaq  Offline
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i didnt make clear that Jesus relied on the Father to keep from sinning, not for salvation. Jesus could have kept Himself from sinning by using His own powers but intead, to be our example, He relied utterly on the Father.

but i think the most important point is that Jesus craved the Fathers company...wanting to be one with the Father.......


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: teresaq] #111832
04/16/09 03:16 PM
04/16/09 03:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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Yes, Jesus demonstrated the kind of faith we need to exercise in order to be at one with our heavenly Father.

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Re: Lesson #2 - Faith [Re: Mountain Man] #111850
04/16/09 06:55 PM
04/16/09 06:55 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
i didnt make clear that Jesus relied on the Father to keep from sinning, not for salvation.


I'm not following your point. Are you saying something other than Jesus Christ didn't sin? (so He didn't need salvation for that)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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