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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #111829
04/16/09 03:06 PM
04/16/09 03:06 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Tom, please post passages Moses wrote you believe the Jews "clearly" understood to mean explained why Jesus had to die and that the animal sacrifices symbolize His death. Also, please post something that makes it clear the Jews understood what Moses wrote to mean these two things.

Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Mountain Man] #111844
04/16/09 05:46 PM
04/16/09 05:46 PM
Tom  Offline
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Lawrence, Kansas
This has already been done on this thread. I think GC did it. What he presented was fine.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #111847
04/16/09 05:52 PM
04/16/09 05:52 PM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
M:It has everything to do with oral tradition. We have access to such information through the SOP.

T:You've asserted this a number of times, but with no proof. I've asked you several times now, 5 or 6 at least, for some sort of inspired reference stating this, but I don't think you've responded (my apologies if I missed something).


Let's update this to 6 or 7. Please respond.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #111885
04/17/09 02:24 PM
04/17/09 02:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Tom, like GC wrote earlier in response to this question, it is too obvious to require "proof". Read through the SOP and you'll see where Ellen White says things about what Moses believed, experienced, and shared with the Jews which are not recorded in the Bible. Jude mentions things Enoch believed and taught but were not recorded in the Bible. It was handed down as oral tradition.

Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Mountain Man] #111886
04/17/09 02:25 PM
04/17/09 02:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Tom, are suggesting you can take the story about the serpent and prove to unbelievers that Moses was clearly explaining why Jesus had to die?

Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Mountain Man] #111896
04/17/09 03:33 PM
04/17/09 03:33 PM
Tom  Offline
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Quote:
Tom, like GC wrote earlier in response to this question, it is too obvious to require "proof".


If this were in reality "obvious," wouldn't someone besides you share the same thought? The fact that only you think this makes this not "obvious" but "obscure," so in even greater need of an inspired quote, right?

Quote:
Tom, are suggesting you can take the story about the serpent and prove to unbelievers that Moses was clearly explaining why Jesus had to die?


I'm not suggesting I can prove anything to unbelievers.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Mountain Man] #111902
04/17/09 07:05 PM
04/17/09 07:05 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Tom, like GC wrote earlier in response to this question, it is too obvious to require "proof". Read through the SOP and you'll see where Ellen White says things about what Moses believed, experienced, and shared with the Jews which are not recorded in the Bible. Jude mentions things Enoch believed and taught but were not recorded in the Bible. It was handed down as oral tradition.

Mike,

I agree with you that there are numerous details about what Moses taught which are given through Mrs. White and which are not in the Bible. However, I will disagree with you that these things were handed down as oral tradition. Had they been oral tradition, we might all have known about them without the aid of Mrs. White. Here is an example from her pen, about Moses, which is not in the Bible, and which I would never have heard except from Mrs. White:

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Instrumental and Vocal.--Evening and morning join with your children in God's worship, reading His Word and singing His praise. Teach them to repeat God's law. Concerning the commandments the Israelites were instructed: "Thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." Accordingly Moses directed the Israelites to set the words of the law to music. While the older children played on instruments, the younger ones marched, singing in concert the song of God's commandments. In later years they retained in their minds the words of the law which they learned during childhood. {CG 523.5}

If it was essential for Moses to embody the commandments in sacred song, so that as they marched in the wilderness, the children could learn to sing the law verse by verse, how essential it is at this time to teach our children God's Word! Let us come up to the help of the Lord, instructing our children to keep the commandments to the letter. Let us do everything in our power to make music in our homes, that God may come in. {CG 524.1} [Child Guidance (1954)]


Of all things which "oral tradition" might have handed down, a song seems among the more likely. Where is this song today? I believe that God's prophets, and this includes Jude, are often given special revelations of things past, present, and future. Ellen White received visions from God. Not all of what she wrote comes from "oral tradition."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Green Cochoa] #112038
04/20/09 07:04 AM
04/20/09 07:04 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Posts: 3,965
Sweden
I find it unlikely that Moses or anyone else knew that Jesus had to die, let alone being able to explain why. The picture of the suffering servant doesn't come until (Isaiah?) and not one in Israel who saw Jesus walk that path towards the cross thought about sacraficial lambs, with the exception of Jesus himself.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: vastergotland] #112039
04/20/09 11:46 AM
04/20/09 11:46 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
The Lord instructed Moses definitely in regard to the ceremonial sacrifices, which were to cease at the death of Christ. The system of sacrifices foreshadowed the offering of Christ as a Lamb without blemish.(1SP 266)


Of course, we can get from Scripture itself that Moses was instructed by the Lord. Presumably the Lord explained the meaning of the sacrifices to Moses as He was instructing Him. It would be awfully odd if he didn't.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #112040
04/20/09 11:54 AM
04/20/09 11:54 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Just curious, is anyone participating on the thread familiar with Dr. Douglas Waterhouse?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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