Tom,

1) I fully agree that Bobryan has been providing answers which are more confusing than anything else. Good advice for all of us on how to properly carry on a conversation in which we are differing on some point.

2) I don't like the term "exegesis." It's not that my vocabulary is limited, it is just that the word, as I often hear it used, reeks of Catholicism in which only the priests are qualified to interpret the Bible. We Adventists have admired terms like "exegesis", "eisegesis" and "hermeneutics" for long enough. It's time to lay such words in the grave, and begin to think as we should that the scriptures are available, and even understandable, by all. It's not a "big boys' club" where only the elite and educated are entitled to proper consideration of their Biblical understandings. We should be able to communicate in such a way that children might also understand. In fact, guess what? Ellen White, for all her theological points, understandings, and verbosity never once uses any of these words.

3) I don't think most Adventists, who supposedly use proper "exegesis," know what they are doing to God's Word by it. Many people set limitations on God and His Word through their own narrow conceptions of how such must be interpreted. Let the Holy Spirit guide us into truth instead of man-made methodologies.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Researching further, it turns out that the common civil war soldier do NOT use swords. They were used by cavalry and officers. So even using the rather absurd guideline of military weapons during the civil war, it *still* would be more to be expected that the wicked would chase the righteous with guns than swords.

The word "I" refers to "me".

"Have" is a reference to the past

"repeatedly" means that I have explained this over and over again.

"asked" - an interrogative.

"for someone" that would be you

"to show" as in give an actual example of a word or sentence that you don't actually understand.

Instead of pretending that "all the words are confusing".

Hope that helps.

in Christ,

Bob

Feel free to "Expect" and "imagine" all you want.

Swords were used extensively in combat during the civil war. Actual weapons actually used in real war in the mid 1800's.

Spears on the other hand - were not in use. Did you mean to imagine "spears"??

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

The innexplicable side track of arguing "that because not every soldier in the civil war used a sword" we are therefore justified in the "wrench and bend of the text of GC 672 and EW 294 text to my no-fire preference" - is transparently flawed and "reaching".

Which means that the only actual reason to ADD to the text below "this is not clear! This is not Clear! We must interpret our way out of it" -- is that some are not happy about the text as it is.

=====================================================

Great Controversy - 673

Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething 673

lake of fire. It is the time of the judgement and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished “according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit.

His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}

EW 294

The Second Death

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together.

I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}


Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but
295
also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!"
{EW 294.2}

Said the angel, "Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe." I then looked and saw the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain.
==============================

in Christ,

Bob [/quote]

I have to say that when I read stuff like that -- I am truly grateful that some people do not find their way to places like the "baptist board" there to post "as if" their "exegesis is just for Catholics" idea is something Adventists actually teach.

I shudder to think of that ever happening!!

But it is very helpful in creating praise for what God is doing in preventing such a thing!

in Christ,

Bob

From Wikipedia:

Tradition.
Their own ideas.
Introducing their own ideas into the text.
And then saying others are doing it, but not them.

Why does this strike me funny considering recent posts?

Consider Jesus' experience drinking the cup of woe and trembling from Gethsemane to Golgotha. Off all the things that happened which ones do not depict what the wicked will feel and experience at the end of time?

Indeed - it is kind of like saying "I don't like the idea of Bible doctrine because Catholics say that Protestants have bad Bible doctrine".

Eisegesis - bad
Exegesis - good.

It pays in this case to look up the definition for that concept. Bible believing protestants generally find it helpful.

in Christ,

Bob

The sarcasm isn't helpful at all.

Regarding "pretending," I'm not pretending. All your recent posts on the question of the swords were very difficult to understand. It seems that everyone on this forum is in agreement regarding this (excluding yourself). Given everyone sees you as being unclear, it doesn't make much sense to assert you're being clear, does it?

The reason all of the words are confusing you don't give any context upon which one could understand your words.

What's the following talking about?



If you don't the context is washing clothes, you're likely to find all the words confusing.