Not here.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Well, why trust a hunch when we can read about it.



So we know that Jesus was expected from the writings of Moses.

Now here is a very interesting statement from Mrs. White about Moses.



We know, of course, that Moses had spoken with God face to face, not even through dreams and visions, but face to face. But it still seems a surprise to think that Moses would have known Jesus' name when the entire Old Testament makes no mention of this name.

Apparently, the Israelites were given instruction which goes beyond what we have today. Perhaps it was written down, but we no longer have a copy. In any case, I firmly believe that Jesus led His people, and did not deny anything of them which would be beneficial toward their salvation.

Jesus understood the scriptures well.


Perhaps some of us need to take that pilgrimage to Emmaus. Here is another statement which references the New Testament perspective of the former prophecies.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Philip and Natanael together with everyone else thought everything was lost and that they had been betting on the wrong man when Jesus died on the cross. They were so sure of this that it took some substantial convincing that Jesus had acctually resurrected. Had it been common knowledge that 'him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write,' were to die on a cross, they would not have been so shocked and devastated. If Moses got to know something in his audiences with God that he did not share, at least not in writing, then that information does not help for the question raised in this thread.

In a way, you are right, Vaster. But uncommon knowledge is still knowledge.

The kings from the East were able to find Jesus shortly after His birth, so there is little excuse for the Jews not to have known. No excuse, in fact. It was pride and prejudice which blinded them, not a lack of clarity in the written Word.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You are mixing up the two things Greenie. Almost everyone in Israel waited for the comming messiah or at least knew about it. Noone expected said messiah to die on a cross. To see messiah-wannabees on crosses was relatively common. Many false prophets in Jesus generation, and the generations before and after died that way. Jesus also died but he was the only one that rose again. Had Jesus not risen again, he would have been no different from the men who died under the colapsing tower he spoke to his diciples about, long since forgotten. The kings from the east also knew about the messiah, propably from reading books taken there by the exiles who were dragged off to Babylon. Did they expect a king who would die such an ignoble death as did Jesus? We cannot know.

So Philip, when he went looking for Nathanael, most likely was thinking about a future day when he would stand next to Jesus in the HQ planing the final military invastion and looting of Rome itself, finally bringing Israel on top of the nations. Brought there by the victorious armies of the sons of Jacob and commanded by the military hero and genious general Jesus and his liteunants, Philip and Nathanael. No wonder they were so shaken by Jesus untimely (in their view) demise.

Again, Vaster, I agree with you that their expectations were amiss. That is why I mentioned "prejudice" earlier. They had wrongly interpreted the prophecies. However, the fact that kings from the Orient could rightly interpret those same prophecies and show them up in terms of understanding proves that the Jews could have known. I am not saying that they did know, simply that it was within their reach to know. They should have studied more carefully, without their own pride of opinion and personal hopes and expectations to cloud their understanding.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I don't know....

When I was studying (Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, fill in what you want), I found the book very unclear -- especially the later chapters. But, after the teacher opened my understanding to the knowledge contained in it, and straighted out my confusion, I found that it was not the text which wasn't clear, but my understanding of it. When I go back and look at the text, I don't understand why it wasn't clear. What the instructor gave in class was not any mysterious only found outside the text information, but merely explained what the text showed.

Simpler example needed? Ask a young kid, who can add 1+2 together, what 1,111 + 2,222 added together are. Explain columnar arithmetic to him. Give the same equation to him. The equation is the same. It is still clear. Nothing was wrong or hidden in the equation. It was his understanding which had the problem. Others could understand it clearly. Ask him to explain it to other kids and you may hear him say things such as, "this is so simple!"

Nothing says the Bible is clear to everyone, but nothing says it couldn't be clear to everyone. You have to be willing to learn. So, was it clear that Jesus had to die? Not to those who don't want to hear it. But clear to everyone else.


What do you think Moses was thinking when he wrote this?:
Genesis 3:15 (NIV) And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

But the kings only knew that Jesus should come at that time. There is no evidence that they knew more than anyone in Israel what Jesus was about to do in his public ministry. And it is his ministry that this topic concerns, not the fact that he came.

kland,

You, I and Greenie all write in hindsight. We read sertain parts of the bible in light of what a teacher (for instance Jesus or Paul) told us about it. So Moses writes something like the first chapters of Genesis. Then Paul comes along 1300 years later and acts as the teacher who opens our eyes to the text. Was Paul original when he did this or had the knowledge been around for a time and in that case, for how long? Paul ought at the least have been contemporary if not the initiator of connecting the verse to Jesus simply for the fact that Jesus had not come as the offspring of Eve before. But all of those who lived between the book was written (or the oral tradition started, whichever fits best) and the teacher came around opening the eyes of the students? Did they know or were they like you before a brand new study book, not quite sure what to make of it? We have the teacher, there was a time when the teacher had not yet come. This topic, as I understand it, relates to the time when the teacher had not yet appeared and all the students were still bewildered before the books.

It is possible that Moses was thinking, "why would God say such a thing at that time? why?". But he wrote it because he knew God and that is the essential thing after all.