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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: kland] #112689
05/06/09 09:25 PM
05/06/09 09:25 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: kland
John 5:46-47
Quote:
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

Just came across that and thought it was of interest.
The question of course is yet, Did Moses write regarding Jesus death or the symbolizm of sacraficial animals or not. The messianic prophecies from the son of the woman crushing the head of the snake and forward well covers this text in John without saying anything about the cross or the reason thereoff.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #112698
05/07/09 12:24 AM
05/07/09 12:24 AM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I wrote earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted By: Tom
Quote:
The Lord instructed Moses definitely in regard to the ceremonial sacrifices, which were to cease at the death of Christ. The system of sacrifices foreshadowed the offering of Christ as a Lamb without blemish.(1SP 266)


Of course, we can get from Scripture itself that Moses was instructed by the Lord. Presumably the Lord explained the meaning of the sacrifices to Moses as He was instructing Him. It would be awfully odd if he didn't.


Given that Moses received instruction from the Lord regarding the ceremonial services, how is it possible that God would have neglected to explain the whole point of them to Moses?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #112725
05/07/09 10:10 AM
05/07/09 10:10 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom

Given that Moses received instruction from the Lord regarding the ceremonial services, how is it possible that God would have neglected to explain the whole point of them to Moses?
Lets make this simple. You show me where Moses did explain and this thread will have been resolved in under 15 pages. laugh


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: vastergotland] #112761
05/07/09 06:18 PM
05/07/09 06:18 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Lets make this simple. You show me where Moses did explain and this thread will have been resolved in under 15 pages.


GC did a nice job doing just this (earlier in this thread).

In regards to my question, given the Lord gave Moses instruction regarding the ceremonial services, how could Moses not have understood their meaning? I don't see how this idea makes any sense.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #112794
05/08/09 07:04 AM
05/08/09 07:04 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
The last post on page 8 is the one you are refering to I suppose. Abraham and Isaac on Moria is a good point, though im not sure wether it covers both questions or only one of them?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: kland] #112808
05/08/09 04:18 PM
05/08/09 04:18 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
John 5:46-47
Quote:
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

Just came across that and thought it was of interest.

Yes, it is of interest. Here's something else which may also be of interest here.

My study Bible has the following key thought regarding Isaiah 44:28 and onward, the prophecy about Cyrus:

Quote:
In 539 B.C. Cyrus the Medo-Persian king conquered Babylon, where the Jews had been exiled. He also allowed the exiles to return to Jerusalem. Isaiah predicted his name and actions 150 years before his birth. Note that God calls Cyrus "my shepherd" and "my anointed" (Is. 45:1), terms which are also used of Jesus. The Hebrew word for "anointed" is the root from which the term "Messiah" is derived. Consequently, there were some Jews who lived during the time of Christ that thought these words about Cyrus actually meant that the Messiah would come as a mighty conqueror.


In other words, the Messianic prophecies may have been clear, but misinterpretations of unrelated prophecies clouded their understanding.

Thought provoking.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: kland] #112809
05/08/09 04:22 PM
05/08/09 04:22 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
John 5:46-47
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

I don't know if anyone brought this one also, but Abraham understood the meaning of the sacrifice.
Originally Posted By: Bible
Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.


Blessings
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Elle] #112835
05/08/09 07:13 PM
05/08/09 07:13 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Thomas, irrespective of a specific example, just on a theoretical basis, what sense does it make that God explained the ceremonial services to Moses yet Moses did not understand why Christ had to die?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: Tom] #112838
05/08/09 08:47 PM
05/08/09 08:47 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
What I am wondering about here Tom, is that your position seem to throw out the concept of progressive revelation. Why? Because what you say is that there was not a time when at least some people had not already been taught everything that we know with 3-4000 year of hindsight. The question is why it took a Paul or a John to write the NT letters when a Moses could have done it just as well? Why wait 1000 years for a Isaiah or an Ezekiel when Abraham could have penned the same truths (assuming Abraham was literate). Why is the bible written over a span of over a thousand years when Moses was like Mohammad given the entire story from the very beginning?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death? [Re: vastergotland] #112848
05/08/09 11:08 PM
05/08/09 11:08 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Certainly there is progressive revelation, but there are certain things which God communicated from the beginning, such as Creation and the sacrifice of Christ, to name two.

Christ Himself communicated the Plan of Salvation to Adam and Eve. He explained that He would have to die, and why. This knowledge was passed by Adam and Eve to their children. Pre-flood man had no need to write things down. After the flood, with continually degenerating powers, it became necessary to have things written down. Much of what Moses wrote down was already common knowledge. Some things Moses wrote down He received specific instructions from the Lord to do so. The ceremonial law falls into this category.

God Himself personally instructed Moses in regards to the ceremonial law. I'm not understanding how Moses could not understand its meaning. Do you think God didn't bother to tell him, choosing to keep it a secret until Paul's time? Do you think God gave Moses myriad minute instructions without giving Moses any reason as to why?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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