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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: Tom] #113005
05/12/09 02:39 AM
05/12/09 02:39 AM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom
I think agape would be the opposite of sin.

Ditto. Same for Colin's.

Sin is the opposite of love. Disobedience and obedience are merely the outward manifestations of what's going on inside.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: asygo] #113037
05/13/09 03:05 AM
05/13/09 03:05 AM
dedication  Online Content
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The opposite of sin is righteousness.

It is by GRACE that we leave sin behind and find righteousness.



Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.



Romans 5:21 That as sin reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 Cor. 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not;

2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



Prov. 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: asygo] #113038
05/13/09 03:19 AM
05/13/09 03:19 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Love can never stand alone --
It must be guided by RIGHTEOUSNESS.

In our lesson last week a member pointed out a thought provoking point about love.
Man's first sin was committed on the rational of love.
Adam sinned out of love. He knew it was wrong to take that fruit, he knew it was going against God's express command, but he loved Eve so much he couldn't bear the thought of being separated from her -- so he ate.

Love can be deceptive -- why?
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful....
It MUST be based upon righteousness.

Adam's love was a lack of trust and reliance upon God.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: dedication] #113039
05/13/09 04:02 AM
05/13/09 04:02 AM
teresaq  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Love can never stand alone --
It must be guided by RIGHTEOUSNESS.

In our lesson last week a member pointed out a thought provoking point about love.
Man's first sin was committed on the rational of love.
Adam sinned out of love. He knew it was wrong to take that fruit, he knew it was going against God's express command, but he loved Eve so much he couldn't bear the thought of being separated from her -- so he ate.

Love can be deceptive -- why?
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful....
It MUST be based upon righteousness.


not to take away from the legitimate points you are making:

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

from my study the bible-and sop- is quite clear on what this love looks like.

Quote:
Adam's love was a lack of trust and reliance upon God.
i dont think this is accurate if you think about it. adam wasnt wrong in loving eve and not wanting to lose her, he was wrong in not trusting God to work out the situation, otherwise the statement makes adam look wrong for loving.

but, yes, we need to study the bible, old and new, to understand, or get a glimpse of what Gods love is like and practice that with our fellowman.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: teresaq] #113041
05/13/09 04:13 AM
05/13/09 04:13 AM
teresaq  Offline
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these also are important. then we have 1 corinthians 13.....and so many more. righteousness is Godlike love towards God and our fellowman.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


not meaning to get into overkill. smile


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: teresaq] #113042
05/13/09 04:26 AM
05/13/09 04:26 AM
dedication  Online Content
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So what takes precedence, that is the question --
LOVE or God's Commands?

If we place love first -- we place our own emotional feelings above God's law.

If we place God's commands first we will love, for His law is based on love, but it is NOT based on our own feelings.

Adam let his love for Eve come first.
Thus yes, at that point it was wrong.
And by doing this he plunged the whole world into darkness.



The general feedback on the verse
"Love is the fulfilling of the law"
seems to be that if we only follow love, we automatically fulfil the law thus we don't have to worry about the law itself.

But what the text is really saying --
is
that love is the fulfilling of the law, that is love is doing or obeying God's law.

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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: dedication] #113043
05/13/09 04:30 AM
05/13/09 04:30 AM
dedication  Online Content
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So I'll stick to the Biblical answer --

The opposite of SIN is RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Righteousness includes love (and patience, gentleness, godliness, faith, obedience to God's commands and every other godly attribute)

Last edited by dedication; 05/13/09 04:30 AM.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: dedication] #113044
05/13/09 06:25 AM
05/13/09 06:25 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Dedication,

The error you do that leads to your contrasting love and the law is that you confuse love with sentimentalism. Read the sermon on the mount and you will see that what the bible calls love is far different. It must be extended to your enemies and those who persecute you. It is something you should be able to give the man who sets fire to the pile of wood you are being burned upon. It is something Jesus gave to the men who had whipped his back into shreads and then nailed him to a cross. There is no feeling that would allow for that. The divine law that makes perfection shares the food you have equally between family and the stranger who is in need. It picks up the man beaten half to death and carries him to safety, who if he had been healthy would cross the street to avoid meeting you on the same pavement, or if that could not be avoided would spit you in the face.

Righteousness, as Jesus disciples are likely to have understood the word, means being acquitted before God.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: vastergotland] #113048
05/13/09 02:43 PM
05/13/09 02:43 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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i agree, thomas.

righteousness =right doing
right doing=obeying the law
the law =a transcript of Gods character
Gods character =love
love=righteousness = obeying the law as summarized in deuteronomy and again by Jesus

adam did not love God supremely, that was His, and our, mistake.
when we study God, His humility and love towards us, then we can also learn to love rightly.

some people may claim all we have to do is love without understanding that means self-sacrificing.



Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #7 - Grace [Re: teresaq] #113049
05/13/09 04:31 PM
05/13/09 04:31 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
It would take a very humble man to selflessly offer help to someone who openly dispises him.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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