Possibly we are talking past each other.

That's the problem when one starts with concepts addressed by former posters. Then someone else posts. Then another person writes something that misrepresents what I meant -- like

"The error you do that leads to your contrasting love and the law is that you confuse love with sentimentalism."
But then, of course, love that is not in subjection to God's law is sentimentalism no matter how noble it may appear to others.



I guess the way I see it at this point is --

There is still the ambiguty as to which comes first -- which has the highest priority, this does NOT mean the other is pushed aside.

1. The broad generalizations of what it means to love
"Love your neighbor and even your enemies, do good to them that hate you" etc.
Or
2. Our love for God and obedience to all His commandments.

Most of the time it may seem the two are one and the same. After all, Christ commanded us to love our enemies, do good to them that hate you etc. etc. So what's the problem?

But when I read what satan has planned for this world I'm convinced that it isn't always one and the same.

The "love principle" or "love ray" of the New Age movement demands that people give up their individualism, their so called "selfish" holding onto individual convictions and unite in love, for the common good of the whole community. This means giving up fundamentalistic beliefs. Those refusing to do so will be accused of NOT loving, and being the cause of this world's strife.

It will be made to appear that God's followers are selfishly clinging to divisive beliefs, thinking only of themselves, and if they only had the love of God in their hearts they would have the "common good" of the community at heart.

But now we are getting of this thread's subject which is the Sabbath School lesson on grace!

i guess im not seeing where anyone was "arguing against you" nor putting forth anything but the biblical love Jesus came to exemplify.

i get the impression most here participating know the difference between any "new age" and the biblical concept without having to spell it out each time.

God is love. So, yes, He is the ultimate standard.

Of course, there are things such as sentimentalism and lust that are called love, but are not love. But let's not let their misunderstanding define our beliefs.

God is love.

Hi Dedication, you brought some nice points and thanks for posting the New Age perspective of love to compare with God's way.

That's interesting, that they only can achieve "love" by losing their identity and fundamental belief for the sake of the community. We Christian, need to almost do the same thing. In regard to fundamental belief, we need to seek for God's beliefs and lay aside our erronous belief. And for our selfish identity, we need to lay that aside and surrender to God's will and become a new person. However, God brings our true noble identity to the surface throught Christ. And His grace is supreme with His patience and the tender trials He gives us, to bring us to an ultimate trusting relationship with Him and not in ourself.

Concerning Love, the Bible says very clearly that God is Love. Love is not something we individual have. Love is a person and by having that person dwelling in us, that's the only way we can reflect God's loving character.

I hope you are right --
Though I have found a large number of Christians who don't see the difference, because the "new age" has invaded the churches and clothed itself in scripture and learned to speak with the same religious phrases Christians are accustomed to hear. It isn't all that obvious on the surface. The main identifying mark is this -- both the true and the false place love on a high plane of personal attributes to exhibit, but one places love above God's law, the other bases love upon God's law.

i hadnt thought of it in that light before, elle, but you are right. i like how you contrasted the true with the counterfeit. we are to "lose" ourselves for the good of others (the community), the difference will be would we be willing to kill those who disagree with us, or view things differently. or are we willing to be killed because we love God, His truth and others. that would seem to be the ultimate test of whether we do have Godly love or the counterfeit.

Are you sure that is the ultimate test?

I have a feeling a lot of people will be lost who would never dream of killing anyone, even if they disagree vigoriously with them. It's not their hate of others, but the fact they don't love the truth that they will be swept away by the deception. (See 2 thess. 2)
Now though I questioned the first half, the other half of your statement I can agree with -- God's faithful people would rather die then dishonor the God Who loves them and whom they love, they'd rather die than give up His truth, and His mission of reaching out in love to others.

i can understand your concern.

that seems to be where hanging out with people and getting to know them and where theyre coming from helps. i dont know where any two of us completely agree on everything. i also wouldnt doubt that each of us thinks others are in "heresy" on some point. that may not have been the best way to say the last sentence.

i was thinking of the sunday law, tho many times i have to wonder how far someone would go, even now.

a person had to be banned just recently from another forum because he made it clear he believed he didnt have to treat anyone he considered in "heresy" with any kind of respect. you have to wonder where someone like that would stop. and yet im sure he believes he "loves".

others break the commandments regularly to defend their particular beliefs. (we both have experienced the "wrath" of rb, for instance-and he believes hes acting in "love")

Yes, God is the personification of LOVE, He isn't just love however, He is an INDIVIDUAL,a SUPREME BEING, not just a concept.

God is many things --

" God is a consuming fire," Duet. 4:24, Heb. 12:29
"God is a merciful God" Duet. 4:31
"God is a jealous God" Duet 6:15
"God is gracious and merciful, 2 Chr. 30:9
" God is terrible majesty. Job 30:32
" God is my salvation.Ps. 62:7
"God is the strength of my heart, Ps. 73:26
"God is the judge: Ps. 75:7
"Our God is holy. Ps. 99:9
"The LORD [is] righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. Ps. 145:17
"God is righteous Dan. 9:14
" God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
"God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1 John 3:20


"God is true. John 3:33
" God is faithful, 1 Cor. 1:9


These are just a few of the many attributes of God.
And yes, God is love--

But that doesn't make "love" the supreme standard.
God is the supreme standard of what love (and all the other righteous attributes) are.

Yes, He demonstrated what real love is all about.
The love demonstrated at Calvary is a love beyond the greatest capacity of human thought. God's love is wider, higher, deeper broader than anything we can fathom.
He will also demonstrate what real justice is all about as well.


Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Ps. 98:9 he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.
Rev. 15 Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.