Yes, much bigger. I have heard it defined as God's attitude toward us.

I would have to agree with the messenger this time.

Dwelling on God's matchless love cannot neglect His other attributes, because it is composed of all His attributes. It's like saying that if we are too focused on eating a BLT sandwich, we might neglect eating the bacon (fake SDA bacon, of course), lettuce, and tomato! Take all of God's attributes, roll them up together, and you'll get love.

No, I've never said, "if you keep my commandments, you will love Me."
First we come to Christ as we are. We accept Him as our Lord and Savior. We are baptised into His death, thus signifying that our old life is dead, and rise with Him into newness of life.
Love fulfils God's law. Love never throws out God's commands as a burden or yoke.

The Bible also says:
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Yes, there are things we must CLEAN out of our lives. The Holy Spirit will help you do that.








Obviously you guys all totally and completely miss the point.

Where in the world did I say all the things you are now putting in my mouth.

No --

My premise is this --
We must place the Word of God and His law as the standard or we will NEVER know what love, righteousness, etc. is all about.

If God's Word and His law isn't placed first, we are left with nothing more than "what we think is the loving thing to do."

Just like Adam --
Didn't he do the "loving thing" by eating the fruit?


God has not left us with just our feelings of "what the loving thing to do is" He gave us a map, His Word and His commandments.

That has nothing to do with gaining God's favor by our works etc. etc. etc. You are launching off into a totally different subject.

But when "love" is placed above God's commandments as having the power to determine what those commands should be -- a person is headed for big trouble.

When people THINK that all their "impulses" and "desires" are in perfect accord with God's commands and thus they don't need God's Word or commands anymore they are deceiving themselves.

True, a person in close fellowship with Christ, will delight to do His will, that is the only way keep God's commands. But love is still a principle, and God's Word sets the standard for that principle, not our inner reasoning.

All I'm saying is that God's Word and His commands MUST BE THE PRINCIPLE governing what love, righteousness etc is.





For example --

In real life:
A person has accepted Christ, yes, His heart and mind have been moved by the Holy Spirit and He wants to follow Christ. Then he is convicted he should keep the Sabbath. But to keep the Sabbath means losing his job.

Now he listens to the modern "love fulfils the law" therefore being loving is all that is needed.
He starts to think, God wants me to love my family. I love them by providing for them. It would not be the loving thing to do something that would cause me to lose my job. We'd lose our house, and ..... I know God is love, and He wants me to love, so I'll keep the Sabbath in the hours I'm not working, and I'm sure God will understand, that I have to provide for my family. He knows my heart. He knows I love Him! He knows I love my family....


Or he listens to a person who tells him, that God's commands are the guide. He is encouraged to "trust and obey" for that is the true way of love and happiness. In spite of his families protests he stops work on the Sabbath, loses his job, and endures some pretty tough times for a couple months. Tough financially and tough because of the condemnation heaped upon him by people who think he's too fanatical. But finally God rewards his faith, he finds work and happiness in the Lord.

Seems the "messenger" is speaking of all His attributes, not just one....
1, "His love,
2. the beauty, the perfection, of His character.
3. Christ in His self-denial,
4. Christ in His humiliation,
5. Christ in His purity
6. and holiness,
7. Christ in His matchless love

GC 415 "The ark that enshrines the tables of the law is covered with the mercy-seat, before which Christ pleads his blood in the sinner's behalf. Thus is represented the union of justice and mercy in the plan of human redemption. This union infinite wisdom alone could devise, and infinite power accomplish; it is a union that fills all Heaven with wonder and adoration."

"Those who will empty their hearts of vanity and rubbish, through the grace of God may purify the chambers of the mind, and make it a storehouse of knowledge, purity, and truth. And it will be continually reaching beyond the narrow boundaries of worldly thought, into the vastness of the Infinite. The justice and mercy of God will be unfolded to the moral perceptions. The grievous character of sin, with its results, will be discerned. The character of God, His love manifested in giving His Son to die for the world, and the beauty of holiness, are exalted themes for contemplation. These will strengthen the intellect, and bring man into close communion with the Infinite One.--Review and Herald, June 21, 1877. {FE 49.2}

What are we to contemplate:
His love, yes,
Also the beauty of His holiness
His mercy
His justice
truth
purity

Then why are there so many denominations, all teaching that God is love, but coming to so many different conclusions as to what is truth?

Again, you speak of God, Who is perfect, His love is perfect, and everything He does is based in His love. That is true enough.
I'm not worried about God's love, it's NOT His love that is in question.

It's the thought that OUR love somehow supercedes God's commands.




It's people who only focus on God' love, and not His justice and holiness who lose their way and find a different god.

having read through these posts several times now i get the distinct impression that what we are "arguing" about is your preconceived notions of what is believed by some of us.

it seems that if anyone says "love" you hear self-centered, worldly love, new-age, new theology. i cant help how the enemy has counterfeited and led many astray. i cant let that stop me from studying Christ and "by beholding we become".

how can there possibly be any kind of discussion if one is not hearing, nor responding to what is said, but to what is going on in their mind?

i am at a complete loss as to how you have not picked up that we do not have limited sickly view of Godly love, which is under discussion, and our goal. nor do i understand where you have gotten the idea that any of us believe we have it. we are to study the life of Christ and as far as ive seen that pretty well covers every aspect you have mentioned.

and lest i be misunderstood yet again, i am in no way saying the rest of the bible should be neglected.

there is much more to it than that. for one thing most churches teach an eternally burning hell for the lost. but we know why there are so many denominations. it is because each would only grow so far then stopped. then persecuted those who discovered more truth.



who on earth ever said that, or even hinted at it?



that would depend on what anyones definitions of "justice", "love" and we are talking of Gods love, and "holiness" are as to whether they are being neglected or not, or how they are even separate and not parts of each other.

I think tq is on the money in post #113145 - what we are "arguing" about is your preconceived notions of what is believed by some of us.

You say, "It's the thought that OUR love somehow supercedes God's commands." I've been discussing, and sometimes disagreeing, with the people on this thread for a while, and I can guarantee that you are the only one with that thought.

Colin said, "Thus the opposite of sin is agape." Tom echoed, "I think agape would be the opposite of sin." If I know these guys at all, they weren't talking about "OUR love" as superseding God's commands. Rather, they were talking about GOD'S love being the opposite of sin.

You said, "Love can never stand alone." You must be talking about human-defined love. True, that can never stand alone. But then, that cannot rightly be called love. Many might think it is love, but it is not.

When we speak of love, we are talking of God's love - God is love. That human abomination that contradicts God's commands is not what WE have in mind. It seems, however, that that's what you have in mind when you think of "love." It might be called love, but it is not.

Time is short. It is time we straighten out what love really means. It is time for us to leave behind our erroneous concepts of what love is, and really get to know Him who is love.

No God, no love.
Know God, know love.

Because they don't know God.

I'm not so sure we can say that --
Some of those people are more "in love" with Christ then you'll hear and see in most Adventist Churches. It can put one to shame how easily they talk about God's goodness and bring it into their daily conversation in a radiant real life way. Yet, they their beliefs often diverge into areas I don't see as Biblical.