There's also a big list in Leviticus of sacrifices for sins of ignorance. Sins of ignorance required the death of a sacrifice.

So regardless if the sin is willful or of ignorance there needs to be a sacrifice? Right?

In response to liane's post, then wouldn't Christ's sacrifice have also been that sacrifice?

I think so. "Christ died for our sins." Paul didn't say, "Christ died only for the sins you did on purpose."

Sin is more pervasive and destructive than many people imagine.

We know that you disagree with Donnell's position that "Christ did not have hereditary tendencies to sin." I can accept that.

But you keep bringing up this "whole fabric" argument, seeming to imply that every single thing they taught must be wrong. He said that Jesus was holy and righteous. Can't you agree with that?

He also taught that Jesus DID NOT have a sinful spiritual nature. Can't you agree with that?

If you can, then please say so. Just say, "Yes, Donnell was correct on that point." I'm certainly no Jones fan, but I can tell when he's correct. I even defend his correct assertions. Is it possible that Donnell was not completely wrong on every single point of doctrine?

But as it stands, you just seem contrarian to me, disagreeing with the person, rather than specific teachings. If that's the case, that's too bad, for all concerned.

the Sanctuary and all that took place with it was a model of Christ. Everything was an example to the Children of Israel and can be studied by us to learn from.

The sacrifice covered willful and ignorant sins just as Christ did for us. I believe it should be our prayer when confessing our sins and seeking forgiveness is for not just the willful sins, but the ones they do not know about. We need to be just as sorry about the sins of ignorance as we are for the ones that we know we did.

As stated by Sr. White: His sufferings and death Jesus has made atonement for all sins of ignorance.

thats a good thought but how can we be repentent for sins we do not know we are committing. that is what asking for forgiveness consists of, doesnt it? we arent just asking God to forgive us for having done it, we are asking Him to bring us to the place where we do not want to do it ever again.

the people of israel brought their sin offering when their sins of ignorance become known to them.

Lev 5:2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.
Lev 5:3 Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty.
Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.
Lev 5:5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:
Lev 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned,....

"contrarian"

now that is a really neat descriptive word!!

Hi Teresaq:

It is not sins of ignorance that one comes to know, but to seek forgiveness for sins we do not know about.

Numbers is a prime example as I shared above:

15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

We are all doing this and we do not know what they are, well not yet. We must always assume we do. Why? Because we are born into sin and it is easy to sin whether we know it or not.

What does Jer 17:9 say: 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

A prime example is the Laodicean condition we are in. We think we are doing just fine, but we are as filthy rags committing sins of ignorance while thinking we are doing good.

It is only when we follow the request of what to do can we see our sins of ignorance and change. Revelation: 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

The eyesalve so that we may see our sins of ignorance, then we truly will see.

i believe that this merely goes along with the levitical verses which came first. the person would have to have known that they had sinned, albeit after the fact.

but i do agree that we have many sins of which we are ignorant of. im old enough and have walked this walk long enough to know that, believe me!!

i think the morning and evening sacrifices were the general covering....

i think we may have different understandings about "forgiveness". i dont believe that sins i do not know about are held against me. the thief on the cross being an example. my understanding of forgiveness, tho, is as i stated it before, but maybe not so well. we are forgiven when we have repented, not just because we ask for it. the forgiveness in this case is the cleansing of the sin from my life. otherwise there will be an awful lot of unrepentent sinners in heaven fouling it up because, after all, they did ask for forgiveness even tho they werent repentent.

that is one meaning of "forgiveness". another is that God forgave-in that He did not hold a grudge against us- before adam and eve even sinned.