yes!! if you had thought to explain your issues it would have helped immensely to know where you were coming from, but unfortunately none of us are perfect.

but it really does not explain why you continued when so many posts were dedicated to show the poster was attempting to come from the biblical meaning of love.

"love fulfils the law" is what the bible says. i can only assume that it means exactly what it says. i would think that studying it rather than arguing over whose "love" is involved would be much more constructive.




these verses are urging us to learn and practice Gods love and i think that should be the point. otherwise this verse is quite applicable:
Eze 34:18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

studying what the bible means by "love" is more constructive, in my experience. your approach, and i hope you will consider the possibility, tends toward the legalistic. what i mean is the way you are stating it,

it is still faulty man determining what Gods word and Gods law look like. our understanding of Gods love, word, and law is faulty, no matter how you look at it. whereas studying Gods love, word and law and letting the Holy Spirit explain it will bring the change in us we need.



you joined the discussion "arguing against" what you thought the brothers might have meant. then claimed that you were being "argued against".

several posts were dedicated to showing what the poster meant which makes the above statement "not right" to put it mildly.

the brothers saw love as the opposite of sin. you see righteousness as the opposite of sin. its just two different perspectives.



there should not be any human side, any human "love" in this consideration at all. our attention should be solely on what Gods love looks like. by beholding we become. concentrating on the misunderstanding and misuse of the biblical concept will only lead us to come to wrong conclusions to counter those thoughts.

My understanding, regarding agape, is that it is a love which we do not have the ability to exercise or practice of ourselves. Only by receiving it from God is it possible for us to have, after which point we can exercise or practice it.

that has come to be both my understanding and experience.

when i try to "love" according to my understanding im a flop. but when i ask God what i should do ideas come to me that i would never have thought of. my way has earned me resentment from others. Gods way has earned me life-long gratitude!

amazing isnt it?!

...That we get to use agape means that WE have to follow the Spirit's leading in studying the Bible to find its shape, etc.

Building character is the human side of agape, and, yes, no human love is part of that, but sanctified living by faith involves humanised agape, experiencing Christ's righteousness in our lives, not just in our justified minds.

That's where the German lesson on grace ended: living out grace...

Following the Spirit is implementing the Bible truths Dedication has always appealed to, on this thread, and God's leading by his Spirit does just what you said, Teresa.

and yet there will be "heathen" who've never heard of a bible who will be in heaven for responding to the Spirit.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,...

.... The love of Christ binds together the members of His family, and wherever that love is made manifest there the divine relationship is revealed. "Everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." 1 John 4:7. {DA 638.1}
Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness; before the words of life had fallen upon their ears, they have befriended the missionaries, even ministering to them at the peril of their own lives. Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God. {DA 638.2}
How surprised and gladdened will be the lowly among the nations, and among the heathen, to hear from the lips of the Saviour, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me"! How glad will be the heart of Infinite Love as His followers look up with surprise and joy at His words of approval! {DA 638.3}

O.K. there is the NEW CREATURE experience.
Allowing God to change us from the inside out.

But can you explain to me how you understand this to take place?

Is it something that happens at conversion?

How would you counsel this person --

CASE STUDY (could be anyone's story)

"The morning started well enough, Sally breathed in the fresh morning morning air, thanking God for life and all His blessings. She took her Bible and read the sixth chapter of Romans, ending with prayer thanking God that her "old self" had been crucified with Christ, and that she could now "reckon herself dead to sin but alive in Christ".

Hardly had she arrived in her office when the shrill telephone shattered her peaceful world. On the other end was an impossible individual, impatient, demanding, shouting rebukes when Sally told him the company did not offer the service he was demanding.

Sally's inner peace was ripped to shreds and replaced with a volatile, steaming emotional storm. Total revoltion against this person filled her heart. Slowly the emotions subsided, but the anger turned to utter discouragement. It was still early in the morning, and already she had failed God completely. All those nice sounding promises of God's love filling her and changing her sounded like fairy tales.

END OF CASE STUDY

How would you counsel this person?

Yes, it's something that happens at conversion. Regarding counsel, I think daily spending a thoughtful hour meditating on the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes, is good counsel.

Not me. Sentence structure and style is different. That was Vaster. You guys need to bone up on your textual criticism skills.

I don't think that was sarcastic. Sarcasm would require more subtlety than that. He seemed pretty straightforward in the assertion that Dedication is promoting the "primacy of the law." But the accuracy of that assertion is fodder for another thread.

In any case, love is the fulfillment of the law. If one loves as Paul had in mind, he will be keeping the law that Paul had in mind.

But in that case study, she had just spent an hour studying Romans six, which includes Christ's death and "taking the old man" or our sinfulness upon Himself and dying. She had spent time with the Lord in prayer and contemplation.

She KNEW how she should have reacted, but all it did was make her feel very guilty that she didn't measure up.

I remember another mother confiding in me, how guilty she felt because she just couldn't seem to stop yelling at her son. He just kept getting under her skin. This woman was very serious about spending time studying, and praying and learning to love. She was a pusher in church in getting Prayer groups and seasons of prayer etc. going. She knew about the love of God, and that she didn't measure up.

Would you have told her to spend more time in study and prayer?