I agree that the wicked suffer terrible mental anguish as all the illusions of their evil ways is striped away in the presence of God's pure holiness, and they see what they have rejected, what they have lost, and the true revelation of their rebellion.

But I also think the fire that burns up everything is very real as well, and that what EGW says about some people perishing instantly and others lingering for a time, is real as well.

Now -- I have no problem with God Himself raining down fire to end the mad mess that erupts when people turn their wrath upon each other and then letting the fire cleanse the earth. As the One Who gave life, He is totally justified to remove that life again if people reject His offer of salvation.


However,
you might be interested in the following, as it appears by reading through these posts that you seek other explanations --




Descriptions of the fire that destroys the earth and all the lost, have startling similarities with nuclear destruction.

NOTE:
In the inner circle of a nuclear explosion, people (and objects) are instantly vaporized. Those a little further away will be instantly blinded by the brilliance of the blast. Then quickly follows the firestorm with its intense heat and hurricane-force. The fire burns so hot that the asphalt in the streets begins to melt and then burn, even as people are trying to run across it, literally melting into the pavement themselves as they run. Victims, on fire, jump into rivers, only to catch fire again when they surface for air. Those who manage to survive the the first horror, suffer the break-down of the body internally. Lungs, liver, heart, intestines, etc., begin to resemble an undefined mass of bloody pulp. A slow and extremely painful death taking days, or perhaps weeks, the victim, usually bleeding painfully from every hole and pore in their body, at last dies and receives their final mercy.




So let's look at the scene at the end of the 1000 years once more.
The wicked dead are raised. Satan feeds them his deceptions telling them he is the rightful prince of the city of Jerusalem and marshalls the multitudes for battle. This probably takes a period of time. (months, years, who knows?) But there will be some scientists who know all about nuclear weapons and how to produce them, and who knows -- a lot of our present day ones may still be tucked away ready to be launched if they weren't set off at the second coming when a similar scene took place. (Speculating here)

But I'm sure that army as vaste as the sands of the sea (Rev. 20) will have some massive weapons of destruction in place as they organize to attack the city. They'll have it all planned (don't ask me how for I most certainly don't know).
I do know that right now, today, there are enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times over, so it's no far fetched idea that the vaste armies could have that then.

We also know from scripture that they will have organized to attack the New Jerusalem which has come down to earth -- a massive city.

We also know they are confronted with the Great White Throne Judgment, and that this judgment changes their plans -- they turn their weapons upon each other. What weapons?
No, I don't think its swords -- it could well be nuclear weapons that people in their frenzied hate and dispair set off en mass, and which sets the whole earth on fire. The earth shattering explosives would cause a disruption in the earth itself -- and volcanic eruptions add their fire.




Now, I'm not saying that's how the fire comes -- as I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I have no problem in seeing God deliver justice in the final cleansing.

Just tossing this out as something to consider.

But there will definitely be a fire that will cleanse the earth of all sin.

Thanks for the thoughts.

First of all, regarding God's doing this, I see two problems wiht the idea. One is that it would be contrary to God's character. The SOP tells us that force is contrary to the principles of God's government, and that rebellion will not be overcome by force. A second problem is that it is totally unnecessary for God to do so, as sin and sinners do not require an action on the part of God in order to be destroyed.

Regarding the nuclear weapons scenario, this has the advantage of the fire coming about as a result of an action on the part of the wicked, as opposed to an action on the part of God, which makes a lot more sense. However, we are told the suffering on the part of the wicked will be proportional to their sin. I don't see how that would be possible with a nuclear fire.

If one takes the point of view that the fire which causes the suffering of the wicked is not literal, but refers to the mental anguish of the wicked in the judgment, then the fact that their suffering is proportional to their evil-doing is a no-brainer. Indeed, how could it be otherwise? As each sin is revealed, there is a natural suffering involved; not something God artificially imposes, but simply the result of sin itself reacting upon the brain and the conscience.

Let's consider again EGW's comment in "The Desire of Ages"



This says "His very presence is to them a consuming fire." This can't possibly be a literal fire. The following sentence says "The glory of Him who is love will destroy them." Again, this cannot be literal fire. The glory of God is not literal fire, but it could aptly be described as such.

at the second coming the people turn on one another and destroy each other, but at the third coming i have only seen the people turning on satan.....

Tom, you may not be so confident a scientist/theologian to assert or be without doubt that God's glory "cannot be" literal fire to the wicked. We just don't know.

What we do know is that fire will come down and burn them up. Whether it's "from God" is a debate over original texts and a little on theology, too of course. Since God's glory is the operative determinant of even how Jesus redeems us as Saviour of the world - i.e. "what" is has he redeemed the world from - like God's wrath against sin, which you differ with the church on on some fine detail of law following reality and not also, mainly, establishing it, as I recall - God's glory destroys sin and sinners in its presence. Thus there's fire and God's glory in the equation, looking at Rev 20, and that shall involve some earthly elements, too, as Peter's espistle says and has been suggested here...

Holy fire is needed to cleanse the earth of sin, down to its inner core, too, as far and much as necessary. There'll be burning, but how do you think God expresses his justice, especially in his day of executive judgement against his adversary and those who've sided with Satan?

"but how do you think God expresses his justice, especially in his day of executive judgement against his adversary and those who've sided with Satan?"

what is Gods "justice", or "wrath"? what is it like?

Sure we can! We can know the same way we know Christ is the Son of God, or that we are justified by faith, or that God created the universe, etc.



What are you referring to here? AFAIK I agree with Ellen White's writings here, and Jones and Waggoner as well. So unless "differ with the church" means "agree with Ellen White, Jones and Waggoner," I don't think so. Could you quote something?



I think God expresses His justice just as described in DA 764:



God gives the wicked time to develop their characters, and if they choose to develop their characters in harmony with Satan's principles rather than His, they will suffer the consequences. The presence of God will be to them a consuming fire. Thus God's justice is manifest.

Regarding the wrath of God, here's something from a previous post on this topic:

a)John 3:35-36;Romans 1:18-19;Romans 3:4-6;Ephesians 5:5-7;Colossians 3:5-7

Let's look at the Romans 1 text:

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them....
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, He gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.(Romans 1:18-28)

Note that three times the passage speaks of God's giving up the wicked; this is His wrath. This concept is brought out in many places in Scripture, including Deut 31:17, 18; Jer. 33:5; 2 Chron 29: 6, 8; 2 Kings 17:17-20; Ps. 27:9; Ps. 89:46; Ps. 143:7; Hosea 9:12; Lam. 2:5-7.

The word translated "gave up" can also be translated "delivered" as in Romans 4:15. God's wrath against sin was manifest against Christ by His giving Him up to suffer for our transgressions. The Spirit of Prophecy brings this out here:

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins." Here is language that expresses His mind toward a corrupt and idolatrous people: "How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? Mine heart is turned within Me, My repentings are kindled together." Must He give up the people for whom such a provision has been made, even His only-begotten Son, the express image of Himself? God permits His Son to be delivered up for our offenses. He Himself assumes toward the Sin Bearer the character of a judge, divesting Himself of the endearing qualities of a father. (TM 245, 246)

God's attitude in wrath is expressed in Hosea, "How shall I give thee up?" God assumed the character of a judge by permitting His Son to be delivered up for our transgressions.

b);2 Chronicles 36:15-17;Jeremiah 25:15-16;Jeremiah 42:18;Amos 2:3-5;Nahum 1:2-3;Romans 2:5-11;Romans 9:21-23;Romans 12:18-20

Let's consider the Romans 2 text. Here's Waggoner's comment on it:

In the first chapter we learned that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men." Therefore all who sin are treasuring up for themselves wrath. It should be noted that in the judgement God is clear. Men receive only what they have worked for. God is not arbitrary. He has not fixed arbitrary decrees, and declared that whoever violates them shall be visited with vengeance. The punishment that will come upon the wicked is the necessary result of their own choice. God is the only source of life.

His life is peace. Now when men reject him, the only alternative for them is wrath and death. "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord; they would none of my counsel; they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them." Prov. 1:29-32. Trouble and death are bound up in sin; they are what men choose when they refuse the Lord. (Waggoner on Romans)

This is similar to what Ellen White wrote in DA 764:

This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life.He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin.

Both Waggoner and Ellen White bring out that the wrath of God is not something arbitrary which God does to the wicked, but their death is the inevitable result of sin. As both Waggoner and EGW put it, God alone is the source o life. When men reject His life, only death remains. Not because God is angry at them and kills them, but because the love (choose) death over life.

c)Romans 5:8-10;1 Thessalonians 5:8-10

Let's look at Romans 5:8-10.

8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

I found the following comment on line, I'm not sure who said it:

Please be careful, because the modern translations are doing something that John says we must never do. They are putting words in God’s mouth that he never said. For example, Today’s English Version takes every chance it can to louse up what the apostle said, and they insert here “we should be saved from God’s wrath through him.” Paul didn’t say God’s wrath. The KJV is right. We shall be saved from our own wrath. That’s the second death, this sense of utter self-condemnation—that’s what is going to kill the wicked at last. Not that God kills them. The wages of sin is death, the second death. It is sin that goes in to us and brings up utter self-condemnation. It is that horrible last look at ourselves that kills us. Paul says we should be saved from that because Jesus experienced that on the cross and took the sting out of it.

I agree with what the author says here. I think he's interpreting the text correctly, and is presenting the concept correctly as well.

Others) Hosea 11

Hosea 11 is an excellent text for the study of God's wrath. This was cited earlier. Hosea most eloquently depicts God crying, "How can I give you up?" This is an eloquent portrayal of God's wrath.

Here's a great verse regarding God's wrath:



God's wrath is expressed by His forsaking, by His hiding His fact, which results in many evils and troubling coming upon those who reject God.

No, Tom, I read "consuming fire" of God's glory destroying sin in his presence.

God's mercy, eloquently presented in those quotes, doesn't obscure or do away with his justice: since he's not arbitary, in its tyrannical sense as used in those quotes, and thus he is fair, that's the end of the story of sin: divine wrath of conscious separation from God for ever as well as fire to end the torment, in the divinely proportionate and controlled manner.

Careful you don't lose sight of the whole picture by being diverted on account of one word "[not] arbitrary".

The different views of the atonement..., and since Ellen White is famous for teaching Christ's substitutionary atonement for our death, you're welcome to try relying on her or the 1888 messengers' rather than the church's own statements of the same teaching - which, correct me if I'm wrong, you don't believe in, but the difference for you here is in the very fine detail you think does away with a need for substitutionary atonement which I don't recall from our previous discussions.