I purposely didn't end the story -- I asked what kind of counsel would "you" (open to anyone here) give -- in other words what should a person experiencing this do?

Yes, you've made a good point --
We need to visit the cross not just when we first accept Christ, and not just for an object lesson on love in extreme hostile conditions, but in deep recognition of our need for forgiveness and Christ's righteousness. And yes,-- OFTEN!
When we get too sure of ourselves and think we KNOW how to live the Christian life....
we are deceiving ourselves.

It's also as we recognize our own desperate need for mercy, and experence deep gratitude for Christ's forgiveness and cleansing power, that we start to look at other people differently.

If God can be merciful to me, shouldn't I be merciful to others? After all Christ loved them and died to save them, too -- they are that precious to Him.

But it's still not the "end of the story"

We still need to go back out there into the real world....

Somehow visiting the cross must become part of the real world with the Christian.

People are bombarded by pressures, a corrupt social environment, a host of voices saying "this way, that way" some even sounding very good, yet still pointing in the wrong direction, and even other spirits attempting to lead astray, so how does one hold on to the Spirit's leading? How does one practice this righteous agape love that is principle of God's law?

Principles, as well as instruction are given in God's Word, but at the same time, in its detailed application to the
specific acts and circumstances, much has been
left to the individual conscience and judgment. It is here that our responsibility begins. Here we must seek to know the will of
God and to cherish the spirit of obedience.

Sin includes a whole range of things, but basically it is REBELLION. It's not just being "unloving" it is REBELLION.

We will never have the right understanding of sin until we see it as against God. All sin is against God -- primarily against His law and authority.

Sin does not want to surrender to God.

And risking the chance of being misunderstood, I'll insert that I'm speaking in general terms, not about anyone here.
For me, having people say "love is the opposite of sin" is, on one hand, just too simplistic phrasing. Of course God's love is the opposite of sin and we are to reflect His love.
But the human part of "agape love" can be deceptive TO THE PERSON himself. I don't know if you can understand that, but I believe it is on that very basis that Christians will be deceived into the false worship system in the last day, it will be based on lofty sounding principles of love, but there will be a subtle twist. For me it's not just a matter of "arguing with the brethren" but a very important understanding, that even though God's love is perfect, human understanding of that love, and how to live according to that love, is not perfect.


We need to surrender self to Christ, and to walk with Him in humble, loving obedience according to His Word and law.

Sin is REBELLION, the opposite of that is surrender.
Sin is rebelling against God's authority and law.
The opposite is to surrender oneself to God's authority and law.

What I'll say next will probably bring protests, but read the whole before addressing it.

--When we focus on "victory" over sin, we are focused on the wrong thing.
The mother desperately wanted victory over the way she treated her son. She wanted to be free from the impulse to yell at him, and never have to deal with that emotion again.

But instead of focusing on victory what we should do is focus on walking step by step, hour by hour, in obedience to God. This isn't saying that God doesn't want us to experience victory, He does, and we WILL have victory IF we walk in obedience, BUT OUR FOCUS isn't on the victory, it's in walking in obedience RIGHT NOW with Christ.

For some reason God doesn't remove our emotional reactors and ingrained habits from us when we are baptized.
He could just wipe them out of our system, and sometimes we hear that it does happen, but usually it does not.
Those obnoxious habits, if we are serious about our walk with Christ, drive us to cling to Him for strength and direction. We will be constantly seeking to fill our minds with His Word and will, and asking for His Spirit.
Our battle with daily sins teach us NOT to depend upon self.

The difference between focusing on "victory" instead of "daily obedience" is this --
In the first, we are focused on self, on "I will get the victory"

In the other we are focused on Christ, and surrendering self to Him and to His standard of obedience on a daily, hourly, minute by minute basis. Looking to Him each moment for the strength to respond to situations according to His will.

In the first, we will be frustrated as "victory" illudes us. Or if by shear will power we do manage to get victory over one or two sins, it may lead to spiritual pride, and downfall.

In the second, we will find the sins that so easily tripped us up will lose their power over us, (we will find true victory in Christ) but we continue to cling to Christ and walk with Him in humble obedience submitting to His will, not trusting in self.
And He will open our minds to greater understanding of His truths from His Word, and we will grow in grace.

I agreed with you on that point.
By "real world" I meant the rough and tumble of the work a day world where we deal with people -- where our "Christianity" is tested. How do we cope there?

Ok, that was late in the evening, so it didn't quite work right, and I went off line early in the night, at 11 : Dedication's scenario involved not tapping in to the Spirit's leading due to pressures in life and being mentally distracted...; I wasn't suggesting that should we tap in to the Spirit's leading that we'll fail to follow it, should we stay connected.

Thank you Dedication, for your complement, too - I just hadn't seen the negative implication of my comments.

I think it would be good to spend a thoughtful hour each day upon the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes.

the "case study" did not give enough details to be able to give any kind of "diagnosis" and "prescription", such as the persons history, for example.

a person would have to be converted to begin with. they would have to want to be living for the Lord. and victory does come, as you and thomas point out, in having our attention on Christ.


the bible and sop are full of "prescriptions" such as the above for success.

what our eyes are on and what our goal is seems to determine success or failure.

Jesus risked eternal separation from the Father so that we might have a place in heaven.

moses was willing to have his name blotted out of the book of life if that would save his fellow israelites. paul also was willing to give up his place in heaven.

so yes, for me, studying Christ and falling at the cross often during the day seems to be my only assurance of learning to love as Christ loved.

Excellent point.



I don't want to be understood in my point. It's easy to make any "prescription," as you put it, into a works program. I'm not suggesting "doing" something as a key to success, but trying to get at what I perceive to be the root of the problem. It seems to me the root of the human problem is that Satan has misrepresented God's character, and mankind has bought into that lie. In order to "fix" man, Christ came to demonstrate the truth about God.

What better way to learn the truth about God than to study the life of Christ? That's why I'm suggesting (not me originally, of course) studying the life of Christ. As Ty Gibson points out, our understanding of God's character and likeness to Him dovetail as one process.



This is amazing, isn't it? I find that many lose the blessing of this concept by not believing that there was an actual risk here (False ideas regarding God's omniscience get in the way here.)



This is the spirit of Christ! Not our salvation, but the salvation of others.



Yes, Christ is the key.

Has its place, of course. Equally, how many understand how we link to the life of Christ? How many understand what justification by faith is - what the grace behind that justification is, for that is our link to Christ?

Unless we understand and experience that link study is ultimately a dead end.

...God's omniscience??...What prevents that enormous risk being understood is misunderstanding God's nature!