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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: dedication]
#113836
05/30/09 07:26 PM
05/30/09 07:26 PM
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OP
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Let's look again at Romans 6:3-11
the key as to how this fits together and also answers how Christ's sacrificial death and blood reconciles us to God.
ROMANS 6:3 Don't you know, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
What do we see here?
We see the believer accepting the substitutional death and resurrection in their behalf.
That's what baptism is.
Accepting the substitutional death and resurrection of Christ in their behalf.
This isn't speaking of baptism as an end in itself, but showing its much deeper meaning?
Baptism connects us with Christ our Savior, and this means being connected with His death. To be buried, or entombed with Christ involves that in our baptism we died with Christ.
Let's look at a text from 1 Peter 2:24 [Christ] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
What does all this mean?
Yes, of course it brings us to Christ. And what do we see in Christ?
Christ took OUR SIN, OUR SINFUL NATURE, upon Himself, upon His sinless nature, and died. What does that mean to us?
Brothers and sisters - it means because HE died to our sin, we died to sin. Therefore it is apparent that our dying to sin is not something we do in actuality, but something Christ has done, and is something that is accounted to all who are united with Him!
For example -- when we rise up out of the watery grave, is sin dead in us? Have we no more struggles with sin? No more falling into sin?
No -- sin is deeply engrained and the battles continue and may even intensive!
But Paul continues --
6:11 Likewise reckon (or account) you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We are indeed to reckon-- consider -- ourselves dead to sin.
This is a whole NEW IDEA --
We are NOT to think that once we've overcome all sin then we can finally count ourself dead to sin. NO! When we accept Christ and His DEATH in our behalf, we, by uniting ourselves with Him, count ourselves dead to sin.
We ARE to count or consider ourselves DEAD to sin, the minute we unite our lives to Christ.
This is a major shift for many people -- from the negative, to the positive.
We are released from the bondage of sin and accounted righteous in the eyes of God. We have accepted the death of Christ to OUR sin as OUR DEATH and and now count ourselve as dead to sin.
Verse 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. means because we are dead to sin through our union with Christ, we are not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies.
6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Freed from sin!
This is what Christ's sacrificial death has done -- FREED US FROM SIN!
Clothed us with HIS righteousness.
JUSTIFIED--
Of course the next step follows' as we died with Christ so we shall rise and live with him.
Thus this is not only applying Christ's death and its benefits to us, but equally giving us a whole new outlook on life! It's a SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION!
But how do we understand this in a more practical sense?
Going back to the beginning -- we were born into a kingdom of sin, slavery and death. We were SLAVES to sin, bound by sin.
But by uniting our lives with Christ Who took our sins and died to this realm of sin, we have been set free from sin (Romans 6:18). We have been rescued from the dominion of darkness (see Col. 1:13) Even if we were pretty good people, we lived in the kingdom of sin, or as Paul Bunyon's Pilgrim depicts it -- we lived in the "city of destruction".
When we accept Christ and join Him in baptism, we die inwardly to this sinful kingdom. Yet that death depends entirely on Christ's sacrificial death upon the cross as Christ takes upon Himself our "old man of sin" and it is nailed on the cross with Him.
Our connection to Christ and His sacrifice is so real that it carries "our old man" to the very cross of Christ in a spiritual crucifixion that kills our old selfish self and we are BORN AGAIN, raised to newness of life WITH CHRIST!
No longer members of the kingdom of sin,
BUT CITIZENS OF THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM!
Sons and daughters of God.
This is JUSTIFICATION!
Now, we walk the life of sanctification.
There will still be a struggle with sin -- but OUR WHOLE OUTLOOK HAS BEEN CHANGED. The renewing of the mind.
6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now, we walk the life of sanctification.
There will still be a struggle with sin -- but OUR WHOLE OUTLOOK HAS BEEN CHANGED. The renewing of the mind.
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: dedication]
#113841
05/30/09 07:54 PM
05/30/09 07:54 PM
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OP
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GRACE
What was the reformation's theological basis?
Luther's great discovery as he was crawling up the steps in Rome upon his knees came as a flash -- The just shall live by faith!
Part of understanding the character of God is to understand "grace". God is gracious to the human race but for centuries the papal church kept God's grace hidden from the people. People actually physically whipped themselves and did all manner of strange things to "kill the old nature" and bring out the "new" and thus earn their justification and sanctification in Christ.
The truth needed to be brought out that
God permitted His Son, "Who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" 2 Cor. 5:21
Does the cross draw people to Christ?
Yes, of course it draws, through the Holy Spirit!
Does the cross bring to us the awareness of the awfulness of sin?
Yes, to all who truly understand what it's about it brings a keen sense of the awfulnes of sin.
It does all this, but it also does more.
When we come to the cross, drawn there by the Holy Spirit, and accept Christ's death to sin as are own death to sin, we are justified, accounted righteous. We can count ourselves as dead to sin.
That is grace! We certianly didn't deserve this! We didn't actually die. We haven't even overcome all sin. But the Bible says "reckon yourselves dead to sin".
You are justified! A new creature in Christ!
There's a world of difference between keeping the Sabbath because we know it is God that sanctifies us, then to keep it hoping that by doing so we can die to sin enough not to be consumed in sin.
There's a world of difference between shutting out evil thoughts from our mind because we know God has cleansed us and such thoughts have no business in a cleansed mind, then to fight with evil thoughts in the disparing battle of trying to "kill the old man".
Reckon therefore yourselves dead to sin and don't let sin have dominion in your mortal body. That is the Biblical admonition found in Romans 6.
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: dedication]
#113846
05/30/09 08:45 PM
05/30/09 08:45 PM
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There's a world of difference between shutting out evil thoughts from our mind because we know God has cleansed us and such thoughts have no business in a cleansed mind, then to fight with evil thoughts in the disparing battle of trying to "kill the old man". i see "dying to self" more along these lines: In his great love, Christ surrendered himself for us. He gave himself for us to meet the necessities of the striving, struggling soul. We are to surrender ourselves to him. When this surrender is entire, Christ can finish the work he began for us by the surrender of himself. Then he can bring to us complete restoration. {RH, May 30, 1907 par. 4} Unless men possess the love of Christ, the qualifications that otherwise would be of value in God's work will be controlled by the natural selfishness of the human heart. Christ desires every man's character to be a harmonious whole. If it is not this, deformity exists. God and man must cooperate to make the character beautiful and symmetrical. {18MR 205.2} Self must be wholly surrendered to Christ. "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." You are to surrender your ownership of self to God's ownership. {18MR 205.3} Sanctification is a progressive work. It is a continuous work, leading human beings higher and still higher. It brings perfection. It does not leave love behind, but brings it constantly into the life as the very essence of Christlikeness. {18MR 205.4} MR No. 1552 - A Solemn Appeal to Surrender to Christ (Written March 3, 1858, from Green Springs, Ohio, to Mary Loughborough.) We are now at Brother Sharp's. They have recently embraced the truth. Seem to be first-rate people. We have suffered in mind considerably since we have been here. I have felt deep agony of soul. I have looked back at a few past months, and as I realize how little I have imitated Jesus' self-sacrificing, devoted life, I am led almost to despair. As I examine the life of our Saviour, the great sacrifice He has made for us, and then be led through His sufferings and anguish, my heart melts within me. Oh, what suffering and agony [He] endured to save lost and fallen man! And this salvation is extended to us freely if we will accept it, if we will suffer with Christ, denying ourselves for His sake. {21MR 252.1} Dear Mary, last Monday I was shown in vision some things that bear with weight upon my mind. I was led through the life of Christ to see His meek, self-denying life. This great sacrifice was to obtain for us a great salvation. And if we obtain this great salvation it must be by our making a sacrifice on our part. As Jesus sacrificed for us, we must sacrifice for Jesus. As He denied Himself for us, we must deny ourselves for Jesus. As he endured privation and suffering for us, so we must endure privation and suffering for Jesus. As He was tempted of Satan, as He was buffeted by Satan forty days then left for a season and angels ministered unto Him, so we shall be buffeted by Satan for a season; and if we resist him these seasons will be followed by grace and strength from God imparted unto us by His angels. {21MR 252.2} As Jesus endured agony and often was in lonely prayer and in agony of spirit pleading with His Father, so we, if we are truly Christ's followers, will often feel agony of soul, and will pour out our earnest prayer to our Father. We shall groan in spirit after God. But these seasons when the soul is enshrouded in darkness will not drive the true Christian from God. I was shown that the disciples of Christ, without an exception, are not their own. Jesus has bought them with a dear sacrifice, His own blood. He claims them. Their time, their strength, are His. Their will, their mind, are subject to His will. Their will is yielded, given up. They wait and watch for the will and counsel of God to be manifested concerning them. {21MR 252.3} I saw that the will is either submitted to Jesus for Him to govern and lead, or the person retains or sets up his or her own will, not willing to submit to Jesus against his own peculiar desires or will. Then Satan steps in and he molds this will to his own pleasure. {21MR 252.4} Christ or Satan has the government of the will, and we are the subjects of one or the other. I was pointed to Christ. Although He was tempted of the devil forty days, yet His will was submitted to the will of His Father and He yielded not, although He was tempted stronger in every way by Satan than any of His disciples have ever been tempted. His will was not yielded to the will of the enemy for a moment. {21MR 253.1} To have the religion of Christ means that you have absolutely surrendered your all to God, and consented to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Through the gift of the Holy Spirit moral power will be given you, and not only will you have your former intrusted talents for the service of God, but their efficiency will be greatly multiplied. The surrender of all our powers to God greatly simplifies the problem of life. It weakens and cuts short a thousand struggles with the passions of the natural heart. Religion is as a golden cord that binds the souls of both youth and aged to Christ. Through it the willing and obedient are brought safely through dark and intricate paths to the city of God. {MYP 30.2}
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: Tom]
#113849
05/30/09 09:13 PM
05/30/09 09:13 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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How does Christ's sacrifice and blood reconcile us to God? Before the bit below..., your earlier question, here. Our natural sinfulness alienates us from God: Christ nailed that alienation to the cross in the person of his assumed humanity, as justice requires of God to suffer his justice: Rom 3:25. Propitiation means suffering God's wrath: any atonement theory issues there belong on your own thread for that. The mercy side of the cross, reconciling us to God, is Christ's righteous character, qualifying him as the Lamb of God: hence his blood is meritorious, is witnessed by the law (Rom 3:21). This isn't just the facts of Christ's righteousness displaying God's character: this is substitution!! - shan't attempt to patronise you by identifying who is substituted..., unless you have no humour?  Christ reconciled the world to God by tasting death for everyman, which death we experience by faith of baptism - numerous exceptions, like the thief on the cross, are famous..., and by imputing to us newness of life by his Spirit dwelling in us. Which leads I think to your question below. Let's look at a text from 1 Peter 2:24 [Christ] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
What does all this mean?
Christ took OUR SIN, OUR SINFUL NATURE, upon Himself, upon His sinless nature, and died. What does that mean to us?
Brothers and sisters - it means because HE died to our sin, we died to sin. Therefore it is apparent that our dying to sin is not something we do, but something Christ has done, and is something that is accounted to all who are united with Him! Peter said that Christ died to "bring us to God." That seems to me very simple and easy to understand. I'm having more difficulty understanding your idea that dying to sin is not something that we need to do. Now, your difficulty is understanding how Dedication says that we experience death to sin, or just the very words, in isolation "dying to sin is not something we do"...? Her full statement says how we experience that death to sin & self without personally ourselves being crucified - a necessary crucifixion you implied with your question to her...! I've summed it up at the top of this post. So..., was it her whole reasoning of Christ's substitutionary death becoming ours by faith in him, or just those words of hers you quoted but didn't understand? I'm not going to go into your addition of "need" to her statement in quoting her. We can handle that separately, as it appears you do not yet see the whole sale change it makes to her statement.
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: Tom]
#113852
05/30/09 09:15 PM
05/30/09 09:15 PM
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OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
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Justification includes forgiveness but goes beyond it. I think justification and forgiveness are one and the same thing. Pardon and justification are one and the same thing. (6 SDABC 1070) Unless you wish to argue that "pardon" is not the same thing as "forgiveness," the above quote establishes my point. But Ellen White includes the greater part I was referring to, thus Justification is more than forgiveness: "To be pardoned in the way that Christ pardons is not only to be forgiven, but to be renewed in the spirit of our mind. The Lord says, "A new heart will I give unto thee." The image of Christ is to be stamped upon the very mind, and heart, and soul. The apostle says, "And we have the mind of Christ." This can also be seen from Scripture, in Romans 4, where Paul presents David as an example of rightouesness by faith: 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Covered by what? What is it that covers those sins? It is Christ's blood. Now, please don't go extremely literalistic, no, Christ does not have "a pot of His blood" as you mentioned earlier when countering me. But it is still the blood of Christ that is necessary to cover those sins. It is with His blood that Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary in order to "cover" our sins. You quote Waggoner "Christ and His Righteousness" Waggoner does not take away the legal aspect in that quote -- For him it is not an either/or but a fuller understanding. The legal aspect is very much there, and it leads into the fuller understanding. He is saying what I've been trying to say -- It is Christ's death that clears us from sin. Christ Who covers us with His robe of righteousness. "It is something tangible, something that vitally affects the individual" "It actually clears him from guilt, and if he is cleared from guilt, is justified, made righteous, he has certainly undergone a radical change."
Notice in the above account that the taking away of the filthy garments is the same as causing the iniquity to pass from the person. And so we find that when Christ covers us with the robe of His own righteousness, He does not furnish a cloak for sin but takes the sin away. And this shows that the forgiveness of sins is something more than a mere form, something more than a mere entry in the books of record in heaven, to the effect that the sin has been cancelled. The forgiveness of sins is a reality; it is something tangible, something that vitally affects the individual. It actually clears him from guilt, and if he is cleared from guilt, is justified, made righteous, he has certainly undergone a radical change. He is, indeed, another person, for he obtained this righteousness for the remission of sins, in Christ. It was obtained only by putting on Christ. But "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." 2 Cor. 5:17. And so the full and free forgiveness of sins carries with it that wonderful and miraculous change known as the new birth, for a man cannot become a new creature except by a new birth. This is the same as having a new, or a clean, heart.
Thus indeed it is Christ's death to our sins and sinful nature that clears us and renews us. It's not our death that we impose upon ourselves. If we struggle "trying to die" we lose, we must accept Christ's death to our sins, His cleansing, to be renewed in mind and spirit and walk in newness of life with Him.
Last edited by dedication; 05/30/09 09:19 PM.
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: teresaq]
#113854
05/30/09 09:31 PM
05/30/09 09:31 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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This sounds, Teresa,... There's a world of difference between shutting out evil thoughts from our mind because we know God has cleansed us and such thoughts have no business in a cleansed mind, then to fight with evil thoughts in the disparing battle of trying to "kill the old man". i see "dying to self" more along these lines: In his great love, Christ surrendered himself for us. He gave himself for us to meet the necessities of the striving, struggling soul. We are to surrender ourselves to him. When this surrender is entire, Christ can finish the work he began for us by the surrender of himself. Then he can bring to us complete restoration. {RH, May 30, 1907 par. 4} Unless men possess the love of Christ, the qualifications that otherwise would be of value in God's work will be controlled by the natural selfishness of the human heart. Christ desires every man's character to be a harmonious whole. If it is not this, deformity exists. God and man must cooperate to make the character beautiful and symmetrical. {18MR 205.2} Self must be wholly surrendered to Christ. "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." You are to surrender your ownership of self to God's ownership. {18MR 205.3} Sanctification is a progressive work. It is a continuous work, leading human beings higher and still higher. It brings perfection. It does not leave love behind, but brings it constantly into the life as the very essence of Christlikeness. {18MR 205.4} MR No. 1552 - A Solemn Appeal to Surrender to Christ (Written March 3, 1858, from Green Springs, Ohio, to Mary Loughborough.) We are now at Brother Sharp's. They have recently embraced the truth. Seem to be first-rate people. We have suffered in mind considerably since we have been here. I have felt deep agony of soul. I have looked back at a few past months, and as I realize how little I have imitated Jesus' self-sacrificing, devoted life, I am led almost to despair. As I examine the life of our Saviour, the great sacrifice He has made for us, and then be led through His sufferings and anguish, my heart melts within me. Oh, what suffering and agony [He] endured to save lost and fallen man! And this salvation is extended to us freely if we will accept it, if we will suffer with Christ, denying ourselves for His sake. {21MR 252.1} Dear Mary, last Monday I was shown in vision some things that bear with weight upon my mind. I was led through the life of Christ to see His meek, self-denying life. This great sacrifice was to obtain for us a great salvation. And if we obtain this great salvation it must be by our making a sacrifice on our part. As Jesus sacrificed for us, we must sacrifice for Jesus. As He denied Himself for us, we must deny ourselves for Jesus. As he endured privation and suffering for us, so we must endure privation and suffering for Jesus. As He was tempted of Satan, as He was buffeted by Satan forty days then left for a season and angels ministered unto Him, so we shall be buffeted by Satan for a season; and if we resist him these seasons will be followed by grace and strength from God imparted unto us by His angels. {21MR 252.2} As Jesus endured agony and often was in lonely prayer and in agony of spirit pleading with His Father, so we, if we are truly Christ's followers, will often feel agony of soul, and will pour out our earnest prayer to our Father. We shall groan in spirit after God. But these seasons when the soul is enshrouded in darkness will not drive the true Christian from God. I was shown that the disciples of Christ, without an exception, are not their own. Jesus has bought them with a dear sacrifice, His own blood. He claims them. Their time, their strength, are His. Their will, their mind, are subject to His will. Their will is yielded, given up. They wait and watch for the will and counsel of God to be manifested concerning them. {21MR 252.3} I saw that the will is either submitted to Jesus for Him to govern and lead, or the person retains or sets up his or her own will, not willing to submit to Jesus against his own peculiar desires or will. Then Satan steps in and he molds this will to his own pleasure. {21MR 252.4} Christ or Satan has the government of the will, and we are the subjects of one or the other. I was pointed to Christ. Although He was tempted of the devil forty days, yet His will was submitted to the will of His Father and He yielded not, although He was tempted stronger in every way by Satan than any of His disciples have ever been tempted. His will was not yielded to the will of the enemy for a moment. {21MR 253.1} To have the religion of Christ means that you have absolutely surrendered your all to God, and consented to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Through the gift of the Holy Spirit moral power will be given you, and not only will you have your former intrusted talents for the service of God, but their efficiency will be greatly multiplied. The surrender of all our powers to God greatly simplifies the problem of life. It weakens and cuts short a thousand struggles with the passions of the natural heart. Religion is as a golden cord that binds the souls of both youth and aged to Christ. Through it the willing and obedient are brought safely through dark and intricate paths to the city of God. {MYP 30.2} ...like you agree, with your own wording: Dedication is saying we submit to God's cleansing action when faced with evil thoughts, which is what these EGW quotes say, too, not so?
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: teresaq]
#113855
05/30/09 09:32 PM
05/30/09 09:32 PM
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OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
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Self must be wholly surrendered to Christ. "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." You are to surrender your ownership of self to God's ownership. {18MR 205.3}
Exactly, we are to consider ourselves dead to the sinful ways, our lives hid with Christ, and surrender to God's will. We can only consider ourselves dead with Christ, if we accept Christ's death to our old sinful nature, and arise in newness of life in Christ. Knowing we are now HIS! We are never DEAD as far as our own powers go. Believe that Christ's death is credited to you, you are forgiven, justified, accepted in the Beloved. And yes, think of yourselve as DEAD, but living in Christ. Thus when the old nature tugs at you, you tell that old nature -- "sorry, you are dead, I will live for Christ."
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: dedication]
#113856
05/30/09 09:32 PM
05/30/09 09:32 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Great studies, again, Dedication: good to reiterate the points and hope Tom understands this time!...
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: teresaq]
#113859
05/30/09 09:42 PM
05/30/09 09:42 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Teresa, I see what Dedication is bringing here. That's an important emphasis that got me thinking all week.
Thanks Dedication for sharing this emphasis "that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." That hit hard with me and gaved a deeper meaning to my connection with Christ. I find this quite profound to what level Christ already took all my sin, and nailed it to the cross.
Frankly, I would like to hear some more and how it correlates with the DOA.
Blessings
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Re: Justifiction, sanctification and the Grace of God
[Re: Colin]
#113860
05/30/09 09:49 PM
05/30/09 09:49 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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This sounds, Teresa,... There's a world of difference between shutting out evil thoughts from our mind because we know God has cleansed us and such thoughts have no business in a cleansed mind, then to fight with evil thoughts in the disparing battle of trying to "kill the old man". i see "dying to self" more along these lines: In his great love, Christ surrendered himself for us. He gave himself for us to meet the necessities of the striving, struggling soul. We are to surrender ourselves to him. When this surrender is entire, Christ can finish the work he began for us by the surrender of himself. Then he can bring to us complete restoration. {RH, May 30, 1907 par. 4} Unless men possess the love of Christ, the qualifications that otherwise would be of value in God's work will be controlled by the natural selfishness of the human heart. Christ desires every man's character to be a harmonious whole. If it is not this, deformity exists. God and man must cooperate to make the character beautiful and symmetrical. {18MR 205.2} Self must be wholly surrendered to Christ. "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." You are to surrender your ownership of self to God's ownership. {18MR 205.3} Sanctification is a progressive work. It is a continuous work, leading human beings higher and still higher. It brings perfection. It does not leave love behind, but brings it constantly into the life as the very essence of Christlikeness. {18MR 205.4} MR No. 1552 - A Solemn Appeal to Surrender to Christ (Written March 3, 1858, from Green Springs, Ohio, to Mary Loughborough.) We are now at Brother Sharp's. They have recently embraced the truth. Seem to be first-rate people. We have suffered in mind considerably since we have been here. I have felt deep agony of soul. I have looked back at a few past months, and as I realize how little I have imitated Jesus' self-sacrificing, devoted life, I am led almost to despair. As I examine the life of our Saviour, the great sacrifice He has made for us, and then be led through His sufferings and anguish, my heart melts within me. Oh, what suffering and agony [He] endured to save lost and fallen man! And this salvation is extended to us freely if we will accept it, if we will suffer with Christ, denying ourselves for His sake. {21MR 252.1} Dear Mary, last Monday I was shown in vision some things that bear with weight upon my mind. I was led through the life of Christ to see His meek, self-denying life. This great sacrifice was to obtain for us a great salvation. And if we obtain this great salvation it must be by our making a sacrifice on our part. As Jesus sacrificed for us, we must sacrifice for Jesus. As He denied Himself for us, we must deny ourselves for Jesus. As he endured privation and suffering for us, so we must endure privation and suffering for Jesus. As He was tempted of Satan, as He was buffeted by Satan forty days then left for a season and angels ministered unto Him, so we shall be buffeted by Satan for a season; and if we resist him these seasons will be followed by grace and strength from God imparted unto us by His angels. {21MR 252.2} As Jesus endured agony and often was in lonely prayer and in agony of spirit pleading with His Father, so we, if we are truly Christ's followers, will often feel agony of soul, and will pour out our earnest prayer to our Father. We shall groan in spirit after God. But these seasons when the soul is enshrouded in darkness will not drive the true Christian from God. I was shown that the disciples of Christ, without an exception, are not their own. Jesus has bought them with a dear sacrifice, His own blood. He claims them. Their time, their strength, are His. Their will, their mind, are subject to His will. Their will is yielded, given up. They wait and watch for the will and counsel of God to be manifested concerning them. {21MR 252.3} I saw that the will is either submitted to Jesus for Him to govern and lead, or the person retains or sets up his or her own will, not willing to submit to Jesus against his own peculiar desires or will. Then Satan steps in and he molds this will to his own pleasure. {21MR 252.4} Christ or Satan has the government of the will, and we are the subjects of one or the other. I was pointed to Christ. Although He was tempted of the devil forty days, yet His will was submitted to the will of His Father and He yielded not, although He was tempted stronger in every way by Satan than any of His disciples have ever been tempted. His will was not yielded to the will of the enemy for a moment. {21MR 253.1} To have the religion of Christ means that you have absolutely surrendered your all to God, and consented to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Through the gift of the Holy Spirit moral power will be given you, and not only will you have your former intrusted talents for the service of God, but their efficiency will be greatly multiplied. The surrender of all our powers to God greatly simplifies the problem of life. It weakens and cuts short a thousand struggles with the passions of the natural heart. Religion is as a golden cord that binds the souls of both youth and aged to Christ. Through it the willing and obedient are brought safely through dark and intricate paths to the city of God. {MYP 30.2} ...like you agree, with your own wording: Dedication is saying we submit to God's cleansing action when faced with evil thoughts, which is what these EGW quotes say, too, not so? no, my brother. i see "works" in both instances of the way dedication stated it. maybe that wasnt how she meant it. but in the way ellen white states it, in her various ways, i see a "Power outside of ourselves" keeping us when and if we surrender fully to God.. i see surrendering to God as dying to self. that is the battle. Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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