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Re: the great controversy
[Re: teresaq]
#119013
09/11/09 01:01 AM
09/11/09 01:01 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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the link was provided. that way you will know for yourself what he says and not be going on anyones say so, or potentiall faulty understanding. Yes or No would have been helpful.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: teresaq]
#119024
09/11/09 04:09 AM
09/11/09 04:09 AM
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OP
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September 7, 1897 The Great Controversy.
We are living in the closing scenes of this earth's history, and what is now done for God is accomplished under the most disadvantageous circumstances. Satan has great skill and wonderful ability. God entrusted him with power and wisdom; but he became filled with self-exaltation and thought that he should be first in heaven. Through this self-seeking, this striving for the supremacy, sin entered into the world. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 1} Satan resolved to make an effort to overthrow the government of God, and set up a kingdom of his own. He began this work by doing just as men who ought to know better are doing today. He complained of the supposed defects in the management of heavenly things, and sought to fill the minds of the angels with his disaffection. Because he was not supreme, he sowed seeds of doubt and unbelief. Because he was not as God, he strove to instill into the minds of the angels his own envy and dissatisfaction. Thus the seeds of alienation were planted, afterward to be drawn out and presented before the heavenly courts as originating, not with Satan, but with the angels. So the deceiver would show that the angels thought as he did. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 2} It was most difficult to make the deceiving power of Satan apparent. His power to deceive increased with practice. If he could not defend himself, he must accuse, in order to appear just and righteous, and to make God appear arbitrary and exacting. In secret he whispered his disaffection to the angels. There was at first no pronounced feeling against God; but the seed had been sown, and the love and confidence of the angels was marred. The sweet communion between them and their God was broken. Every move was watched; every action was viewed in the light in which Satan had made them see things. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 3} That which Satan had instilled into the minds of the angels--a word here and a word there--opened the way for a long list of suppositions. In his artful way he drew expressions of doubt from them. Then, when he was interviewed, he accused those whom he had educated. He laid all the disaffection on the ones he had led. As one in holy office, he manifested an overbearing desire for justice, but it was a counterfeit of justice, which was entirely contrary to God's love and compassion and mercy. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 4}
Just such transactions are taking place today. Many place such confidence in their own ideas that they present their theories as if they could make no mistake. Once their words are spoken, they never go back, never repent, never feel that they need forgiveness. They feel that they are infallible. Thus it has been in past history; thus it will be again. False religious confidence becomes supposed infallibility. How can these deluded ones think that they are the only ones led and taught of God? When this spirit is manifested, what can be done? You cannot convince them, because they say, "God has led me." They will not acknowledge that they have acted on wrong principles. They maintain that they have moved rightly. The only course that can be pursued is to leave them to develop their principles. They may never see their error, but others may be convinced and saved. To attempt to unmask them would be to call sympathy to their side. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 5} Great efforts will be made by those who suppose their own wisdom to be supreme, in exactly the same lines on which Satan worked, and which caused so much mischief in the paradise of God. The very same principles are revealed and upheld today. When a man is elected to a position of trust, to preside over important interests, large and broad, or over interests of less extent, but still important, Satan stirs up the minds of those who are selfish, who are not consecrated to God's service, who have not an eye single to his glory. He fills their hearts with the spirit of criticizing and accusing. If they think that they are not especially favored, they will talk of the mistakes and errors of the one against whom they are working. This step taken, Satan, whose special business it is to create alienation and strife, will place the matter before these persons in a most deceiving way, and they will bring against those in positions of trust the most unjust charges, in order to discourage and destroy God's servants. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 6} Satan's representations against the government of God, and his defense of those who sided with him, were a constant accusation against God. His murmurings and complaints were groundless; and yet God allowed him to work out his theory. God could have destroyed Satan and all his sympathizers as easily as one can pick up a pebble and cast it to the earth. But by so doing he would have given a precedent for the exercise of force. All the compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. He would not work on this line. He would not give the slightest encouragement for any human being to set himself up as God over another human being, feeling at liberty to cause him physical or mental suffering. This principle is wholly of Satan's creation. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 7}
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: teresaq]
#119026
09/11/09 04:12 AM
09/11/09 04:12 AM
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OP
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concluded, The principles of the character of God were the foundation of the education constantly kept before the heavenly angels. These principles were goodness, mercy, and love. Self-evidencing light was to be recognized and freely accepted by all who occupied positions of trust and power. They must accept God's principles, and, through the presentation of truth and righteousness, convince all who were in his service. This was the only power to be used. Force must never come in. All who thought that their position gave them power to command their fellow beings, and control conscience, must be deprived of their position; for this is not God's plan. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 8} These principles are to be the foundation of education in God's church today. The rules given by him are to be observed and respected. God has enjoined this. His government is moral. Nothing is to be done by compulsion. Truth is to be the prevailing power. . All service is to be done willingly, and for the love of God. All who are honored with positions of influence are to represent God; for when officiating, they are in the place of God. In everything their actions must correspond to the importance of their position. The higher the position the more distinctly will self-sacrifice be revealed if they are fit for the office. Every heart that is controlled by these principles will be loyal.
But when those who profess to be in God's service resort to accusation,
they are adopting Satan's principles to cast out Satan;
and this never will work. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 9}
In the councils of heaven it was decided that principles must be acted upon that would not at once destroy Satan's power; for it was God's purpose to place things upon an eternal basis of security. Time must be given for Satan to develop the principles which were the foundation of his government. The heavenly universe must see worked out the principles which Satan declared were superior to God's principles. God's order must be contrasted with Satan's order. The corrupting principles of Satan's rule must be revealed. The principles of righteousness expressed in God's law must be demonstrated as unchangeable, perfect, eternal. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 10}
The Lord saw the use Satan was making of his powers, and he set before him truth in contrast with falsehood. Time and time again during the controversy, Satan was ready to be convinced, ready to admit that he was wrong. But those he had deceived were also ready to accuse him of leaving them. What should he do?--submit to God, or continue in a course of deception? He chose to deny truth, to take refuge in misstatements and fraud. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 11} The Lord allowed Satan to go on, and demonstrate his principles. God did reveal that his principles were right, and he carried the worlds unfallen and the heavenly universe with him; but it was at a terrible cost. His only begotten Son was given up as Satan's victim. The Lord Jesus Christ revealed a character entirely opposite to that of Satan. As the high priest laid aside his gorgeous, pontifical robes, and officiated in the white linen dress of a common priest, so Christ emptied himself, and took the form of a servant, and offered the sacrifice, himself the priest himself the victim. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 12} By causing the death of the Sovereign of heaven, Satan defeated his own purpose. The death of the Son of God made the death of Satan unavoidable. He was allowed to go on until his administration was laid open before the worlds unfallen and before the heavenly universe. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he uprooted himself from the affections of the unfallen beings. He was seen by all to be a liar, a thief, and a murderer. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 13} God sees that the same course of action is being pursued the world over. Men and women come to the place where the road diverges; it is either right or wrong. Thousands upon thousands clothe themselves in what they suppose to be an impenetrable disguise, and choose the wrong. An attempt to make their course plain to others by abrupt disclosures would only cause a larger number to choose the side of wrong. Thus the wrong-doers would be sustained, and many souls would be ruined. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 14}
Today Satan is working upon human minds by his crooked principles.
These will be adopted and acted upon by some who claim to be loyal and true to God's government.
How shall we know that they are disloyal and untrue?--"By their fruits ye shall know them." God does not force any one. He leaves all free to choose. But he says, "By their fruits ye shall know them."
The Lord will not write as wise those who cannot distinguish between a tree that bears thorn-berries and a tree that bears olives. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 15} Individually, we are deciding our eternal destiny, deciding whether we shall enjoy the highest honor that can be given to man, even an eternal weight of glory,
or be ranked with Satan by possessing his character,
by dishonoring God because we profess to be Christians while misrepresenting Christ.
Those who choose to reveal the character of the arch-deceiver identify themselves with him beyond the possibility of a change,
because they choose not to see themselves as wrong.
This was the course that Satan pursued. {RH, September 7, 1897 par. 16}
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: teresaq]
#119041
09/11/09 03:35 PM
09/11/09 03:35 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Thomas:Hmm, Tom, you read the books? What does Boyd say regarding Rosangelas point? I'm sorry, I didn't see this earlier. My understanding is that the Great Controversy is above all about God. I just wrote something about this recently. I'll see if I can find it. Regarding Boyd, I believe he is right on when it comes to the issues of the Great Controversy and the idea that Christ is the revelation of God which is the key to the solution. I'll present some comment of his in a post following this one. Here are comments I made in regards to the Great Controversy. From the first, the great controversy had been upon the law of God. Satan had sought to prove that God was unjust, and that His law was faulty, and that the good of the universe required it to be changed. {ST, November 4, 1908 par. 12} This brings out that Satan had sought to prove that God was unjust. The GC was regarding God's character, above all. Satan used the law as a means to an end, to try to prove that God was unjust, which was his argument all along, even before he knew about the law. Sin originated in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. (DA 21)
Satan misrepresented God for the purpose of winning converts to himself, in order to exalt himself. This is how he deceived men and angels. The core issue of the Great Controversy involves the character of the protagonists. Not until the death of Christ was the character of Satan clearly revealed to the angels or to the unfallen worlds. The archapostate had so clothed himself with deception that even holy beings had not understood his principles. They had not clearly seen the nature of his rebellion....
Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings.(From the chapter "It Is Finished" in "The Desire of Ages")
For angels, revealing Satan's true character was crucial, as they had an idea about God's character, but hadn't fully seen the truth about Satan. The cross revealed his character, winning the Great Controversy, as far as the fallen angels were concerned. Considering man now, according to the SOP, the "whole purpose" of Christ's earthly mission was the revelation of God's character, to set men right with Him (ST 1/20/90). Revealing God's character is also the final message to be given to the world. It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth.
This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isa. 40:9,10.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.(COL 415)
Now an understanding of the law, and its role, *is* important, because this is the focal point Satan will use to misrepresent God's character. But, to properly understand the Great Controversy, we need to understand that front row and center is God's character, and Jesus Christ, the revelation of that character. This is the key to understanding everything.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: Tom]
#119042
09/11/09 03:35 PM
09/11/09 03:35 PM
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Active Member 2012
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The following are excerpts from "Is God to Blame" by Greg Boyd
This is the foundation of all sin: the lie that God is untrustworthy, the lie that God is not altogether loving and that He doesn't have our best interests in mind. Adam and Eve came under the grip of this deceptive picture of God. At that moment they stopped trusting God as their source of life. Consequently, they saw themselves as deficient...
A faulty picture of God led to an ungodly evaluation that in turn brought about a rebellious action...The lie created an emptiness as well as the futile and rebellious means of filling it. A false concept of God, and therefore of herself, gave birth to sinful behavior, which in turn brought about spiritual and physical death (see Jas 1:14-16)...
Just as the foundation of all that separates us from God is a false picture of God, so too the foundation of all that restores our innocent communication iwth God is a true picture of God. So everything hangs on the question, Where do we find the true picture of God? The answer that the Bible unequivocally and emphatically gives is Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the truth that dispels the serpent's lie...
When God thinks, John is saying, it is Jesus. And when God expresses Himself, it is Jesus...wherever and whenever God thinks and expresses Himself, it is Jesus Christ.
Moreover, it has been this way throughout eternity...
This means that in knowing, we are not knowing someone "one step removed" from God. in knowing Jesus we are knowing God Himself, God in His eternal essence. In seeing Jesus, we are seeing the very heart of God...
Whereas the enemy covered up the true God in a veil of deceptive darkness that brought death, Jesus turns the light on so we can see who God really is. In doing this, Jesus gives life...
Only the revelation of God in Christ completely dispels all forms of the lie we have been deceived into believing. When our picture of God is built on any foundation other than Jesus Christ...we will be vulnerable to believing a lie about God... We will embrace a god that is consistent with our jaded presuppositions and fallible expectations, which keep us in bondage to the serpent's lie. Our understanding of God, ourselves, suffering and every other aspect of creation will be to some extent corrupted...
Idolatry takes place when we don't allow God to define Himself for us in Christ but rather embrace a picture of God on the basis of our life experiences, philosophical speculations or non-Christ-centered interpretations of Scripture...
All we can and need to know about God is found in Christ, for God fully dwells in and is revealed in Christ...
Christ was not an innocent third party who was punished against His will to apease the Father's wrath...Hence His sacrifice does not appease God's wrath; it reveals God's love.... In the crucified Christ the truth about God, about us and about the world is most perfectly revealed. For the cross is where reconciliation between God and the world is accomplished...
Under the impact of the primordial deception, the "natural mind" does not expect the omnipotent Creator to like like this...
The most fundamental distinguishing characteristic of every false picture of God is that it qualifies and compromises the truth about God's love. The most fundamental distinguishing characteristic of the true God is that the love He is and the love He gives is unsurpassable. A greater love simply cannot be conceived.
The love that God eternally is, is manifested in the love that God gives. And the love God gives is displayed most perfectly on the cross.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: Tom]
#119050
09/11/09 06:25 PM
09/11/09 06:25 PM
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Active Member 2011
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These are things worth repeating. Idolatry takes place when we don't allow God to define Himself for us in Christ but rather embrace a picture of God on the basis of our life experiences, philosophical speculations or non-Christ-centered interpretations of Scripture...
All we can and need to know about God is found in Christ, for God fully dwells in and is revealed in Christ...
Christ was not an innocent third party who was punished against His will to apease the Father's wrath...Hence His sacrifice does not appease God's wrath; it reveals God's love.... In the crucified Christ the truth about God, about us and about the world is most perfectly revealed. For the cross is where reconciliation between God and the world is accomplished...
The most fundamental distinguishing characteristic of every false picture of God is that it qualifies and compromises the truth about God's love. The most fundamental distinguishing characteristic of the true God is that the love He is and the love He gives is unsurpassable. A greater love simply cannot be conceived.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: Tom]
#119163
09/14/09 03:55 PM
09/14/09 03:55 PM
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This is the foundation of all sin: the lie that God is untrustworthy, the lie that God is not altogether loving and that He doesn't have our best interests in mind. Does Satan still believe this, or was straightened out in his meeting with Jesus? Didn't he already see that he was wrong?
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: asygo]
#119181
09/14/09 10:47 PM
09/14/09 10:47 PM
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Here's something that may shed some light on your questions: Unselfishness, the principle of God's kingdom, is the principle that Satan hates; its very existence he denies. From the beginning of the great controversy he has endeavored to prove God's principles of action to be selfish, and he deals in the same way with all who serve God. To disprove Satan's claim is the work of Christ and of all who bear His name.(Ed. 154)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: Tom]
#119182
09/14/09 11:09 PM
09/14/09 11:09 PM
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So you believe that, to this day, Satan still DOES NOT know that he is wrong and God is right. Correct?
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: the great controversy
[Re: asygo]
#119261
09/16/09 02:52 AM
09/16/09 02:52 AM
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Is that what you think the quote means?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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