Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

This doesn't mean two raises --
It's like saying,
he left and came back again.
he put the pie in the fridge and took it out again.

Jesus died and was raised again.


As to WHO raised Jesus -- that is the question.

The Bible says:

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus
Romans 6:4 Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father
Gal. 1:1 God the Father, who raised him from the dead

John 10:17 (Jesus said)"I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
10:18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.


It's true what Elle is saying -- there are far more texts indicating that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

While the OT usually makes no distinction between Christ (who is the God who spoke and communicated with man in the OT) and the Father, yet the NT does. So we can't just say that verses saying "God raised Jesus" means Jesus raised Himself. Besides there are plenty of verses that specifically mention God the Father raised Jesus.

However, the Bible also has a couple verses suggesting that Christ raised Himself.

How do we reconcil the two?


Could texts like the following help:

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise.

Remember, when Jesus took the body of humanity, part of the plan was that He would NOT use His divine power to make things easier for Himself, He would be fully man, submitting totally to the Father, as any faithful human must submit fully to God.

So could we say that even though Christ had the POWER, he didn't use it, but relied totally on the Father, as every human must?

This text isn't dealing with the subject of Christ's divinity and humanity.
It's talking about Jews and Gentiles.

Christ's death broke down the segregating wall between Jews and Gentiles and made them all ONE at the foot of the cross.

See context --
[quote]Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that you being in time past Gentiles....2:12 strangers from the covenants of promise
2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
2:14 For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition...
2:19 therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

I think you are not taking into account the fact that when Jesus died, it was "mission accomplished." He no longer needed to be submissive to God as our example as before, for the test on His behalf had completed, and He had passed.

Jesus had said He would lay down His life, and take it up again. Mrs. White tells us that is exactly what He did do.

Why do we doubt this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

jones understood it differently and im going on that understanding which makes more sense. ill see if i can find his reasoning which would be better than my explanation.

yes, i agree. once Christ had died "it is(was) finished". that He can raise Himself is proof that He can raise us. but i guess its something one has to see for themself.

Why do you doubt the many verses that say God the FATHER raised Jesus?

The Bible says:

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus
Romans 6:4 Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the FatherGal. 1:1 God the Father, who raised him from the dead

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Ephesians 1:17,20 the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:...And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places."


Are you sure His death was "mission accomplished" before the resurrection?

Doesn't Paul say if Christ were not raised our faith is in vain?

And even after His resurrection He told Mary "don't touch me I must first ascend to my Father". We are given further insight that He ascended to the Father to verify that His sacrifice was sufficient. "Jesus quickly ascended to His Father to hear from His lips that He accepted the sacrifice, and to receive all power in heaven and upon earth. {EW 187.1}


Why not look for reconciliation instead of pitting 30 verses against 2?





So what do you do with all those texts that say God the Father raised Jesus?
Do you doubt them?[/quote]

from the 1895 sermons:
Turn to the second chapter of Ephesians beginning with the first verse and let us read the good news that the enmity against God is destroyed so that all may be free. Beginning with the first verse:

And you hath he quickened who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

We walked according to that spirit. What spirit is it that rules in the children of disobedience? The spirit that controls the world, the mind that originated the evil in the garden and that is enmity against God. Who is the prince of the power of the air? The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, the god of this world--who has nothing in Jesus Christ, thank the Lord.

Among whom also we all had our conversation [our way of life] in times past, in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind.

The mind of this world, being of this world, naturally falls into the ways of this world. "And were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." We were.

Before reading further in Ephesians, turn to Colossians 1:21. You "were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind." Then where did the enmity lie that made us enemies? In the mind, the fleshly mind. The mind of the flesh is enmity and it controlling us makes us at enmity and enemies--"by wicked works."

Now Ephesians 2:11: "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles is the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision"--by the Lord?--No, but "by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands." Then here are some men in the flesh calling other men in the flesh certain names, making certain distinctions between themselves.

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Another passage in connection with that is in the fourth chapter, 17th and 18th verses, which we will read before reading further here:

This I say therefore and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, [that is, in the idolatry of their mind], having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart.

Those who are in the flesh, far off from God, are walking in the vanity of their mind, are alienated from God and
are separated from the life of God. Enemies in the mind; that is what we were. Reading again in Eph. 2:13: "But now"-- When? I mean that. I mean we who are now here studying the scriptures, we are to yield ourselves to the word of God exactly as it is, that it may carry us where He may want us. Therefore I ask, When? Now, right where we are.

"But now, in Jesus Christ, ye who sometime were far off." Far off from whom? Far off from God? or far off from the Jews? The previous verse says far off from God, "without God," alienated from the life of God. "Ye who sometime were far off [from God] are made nigh" to whom? To God? or to the Jews?--Nigh to God of course.
"Ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh to God by the blood of Christ. For He who is our peace, who hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us--that was between us--having abolished in his flesh the enmity." Thank the Lord. He hath "abolished the enmity" and we can be separated from the world.

"Hath broken down the middle wall of partition between"--whom? Between men and God, surely. How did He do it? How did He break down the middle wall of partition between us and God? By "abolishing the enmity." Good.
True, that enmity had worked a division and a separation between men on the earth, between circumcision and uncircumcision, between circumcision according to the flesh and uncircumcision according to the flesh. It had manifested itself in their divisions, in building up another wall between Jews and Gentiles--that is true, but if the Jews had been joined to God and had not been separated from Him, would they have ever built up a wall between them and anybody else? No, certainly not, but in their separation from God, in their fleshly minds, in the enmity that was in their minds and the blindness through unbelief which put the veil upon their heart--all this separated them from God. And then because of the laws and ceremonies which God had given them, they gave themselves credit for being the Lord's and for being so much better than other people, that they built up a great separating wall and partition between themselves and other people. But where lay the root of the whole thing, as between them and other people even? It lay in the enmity that was in them that separated them first from God. And being separated from Him, the certain consequence was that they would be separated from others.

"For He is our peace, who hath made both one." Made both who one?--God and men, certainly. "And hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, having abolished in his flesh the enmity...for to make in himself of twain [of two] one new man, so making peace."

Let us look that over again. "having abolished in His flesh the enmity." Now omitting the next clause (We are not studying that in this lesson.), what did He abolish that enmity for? What did He break down that middle wall of partition for? Why? "for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace." Does Christ make a new man out of a Jew and a Gentile? No. Out of a heathen and somebody else? No. Out of one heathen and another heathen? No.

God makes one new man out of God and a man. And in Christ, God and man met so that they can be one.

All men were separated from God and in their separation from God they were separated from one another. True, Christ wants to bring all to one another; He was ushered into the world with "Peace on earth; good will to men." That is His object. But does He spend His time in trying to get these reconciled to one another and in trying to destroy all these separations between men and to get them to say, "Oh, well, let all bygones be bygones; now we will bury the hatchet; now we will start out and turn over a new leaf and we will live better from this time on"? Christ might have done that. If He had taken that course there are thousands of people whom He could have persuaded to do that; thousands whom He could persuade to say, "Well, it is too bad that we acted that way toward one another; it is not right, and I am sorry for it. And now let us just all leave that behind and turn over a new leaf and go on and do better." He could have got people to agree to that. But could they have stuck to it? No. For the wicked thing is there still that made the division. What caused the division? The enmity, their separation from God caused the separation from one another. Then what in the world would have been the use of the Lord Himself trying to get men to agree to put away their differences without going to the root of the matter and getting rid of the enmity that caused the separation? Their separation from God had forced a separation among themselves. And the only way to destroy their separation from one another was of necessity to destroy their separation from God. And this He did by abolishing the enmity. And we ministers can get a lesson from this, when churches call us to try to settle difficulties. We have nothing at all to do with settling difficulties between men as such. We are to get the difficulty between God and man settled and when that is done, all other separations will be ended.
It is true, the Jews in their separation from God had built up extra separations between themselves and the Gentiles. It is true that Christ wanted to put all those separations out of the way and He did do that. But the only way that He did it and the only way that He could do it was to destroy the thing that separated between them and God. All the separations between them and the Gentiles would be gone, when the separation, the enmity, between them and God was gone.

Oh, the blessed news that the enmity is abolished! It is abolished; thank the Lord. There is therefore now no need whatever of our having any friendship with the world. No need of our having any lack of obedience to the law of God. No need of any failure to be subject to God, for Jesus Christ has taken the enmity out of the way. He has abolished it, destroyed it. He has destroyed the wicked thing in which lies friendship with the world, in which lies lack of subject to God and failure to be subject to His law. It is gone; in Christ it is gone. Not outside of Christ. In Christ it is gone, abolished, annihilated. Thank the Lord. This is freedom indeed.

That has always been good news, of course. But to me now, in view of the situation which God has shown us as we are now placed in the world, this blessed news has come to me in the last few days as though I had never heard it before. It has come to me bringing such joy, such genuine Christian delight, that--well, it seems to me I am just as happy as a Christian.

Oh, the blessed fact that God says that thing which separates us from God, which joins us to the world and which does all the mischief, is abolished in Him, who is our Peace. Let us take the glad news tonight, rejoice in it all the night and all the day, that God may lead us on further and further into the green pastures and by the still waters of His glorious kingdom into which He has translated us. "Fear not, for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people. For unto you [unto me I know] is born this day in the city of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." Thank the Lord.

by A.T. Jones

Dedication,

I do not doubt that God the Father raised up Jesus any more than I might "doubt" that God the Father is the "Father" of this world--whereas we know that Jesus, who is the Word, created this world. In other words, their roles may have the same purpose. They are ONE GOD. Jesus said, "If ye have seen me, ye have seen the Father." Who loves us more? Jesus, or the Father? "The Father himself loveth you." By the same token, who is more responsible for Christ's resurrection? Perhaps they BOTH are responsible.

I do not deny the Father's role. As Mrs. White said, and I believe it to be true, the Father is the One who sent an angel to tell Jesus that it was time to come forth. Jesus then, in response to this, raised Himself. The angel rolled away the stone, but the angel did not raise Jesus up. Jesus came out on His own.

It is entirely possible given the mystery of the Godhead, that the Bible gives us but a cloudy, darkened reflection of the truth. One day, we will know Him face to face instead.

I doubt that I'm expressing my thoughts as clearly as I wish here. I may yet find a better way to illustrate them. Nevertheless, I fully accept Mrs. White's light on the subject, and to me her words are clear.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

i think we might be able to claim this one:Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

this one doesnt say the Father raised Christ, nor that the Father raised Him by His-the Fathers-glory. glory = character. Jesus raised Himself because He had the character of the Father. He had retained the character of the Father from babyhood through death.

ylt: Rom 6:4 we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

we can claim this one also:
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

ylt: 1Pe 1:3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to the abundance of His kindness did beget us again to a living hope, through the rising again of Jesus Christ out of the dead,

this one was already ours:
Act 2:24 whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,
death could not hold Christ, not just because He was God, but because He had not sinned. death can and will hold us, unless Christ calls us from our graves.

if death could have held Christ for any reason, then we are in a world of hurt.

Jones didn't say anything different from what I said.

It's talking about the Gentiles and the Jews --
Both were alienated from God.
But the Gentiles didn't have the covenant promises
The Jews did but still were alienated from God and had built a huge wall separating themselves from the Gentiles.

But all were declared guilty ' that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Yes, indeed Christ reconciled them to Himself and included all in the covenant of salvation!
We are NOT to classify people as Jew or Gentile, all have the same priviledges in Christ.

It's still not talking about Christ's divine and human nature being reconciled.