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Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Green Cochoa] #114699
06/12/09 09:20 PM
06/12/09 09:20 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
There seems to be nothing in the scriptures or Ellen White to refute it, for they, if anything, support it.

Isaiah says: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; ... I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them..."
He is describing the conditions which would prevail in the new heavens and new earth. But this theory applies the passage to a time which precedes the executive judgement and, therefore, the new heavens and the new earth.

Why is Isaiah speaking of sinners and death in the new earth? This is how I see it: the new heavens and the new earth spoken of here refer to the nation of Israel and a time of glory it would enjoy before the first advent of Christ, if they had been faithful to God.

Ellen White says the following in PK 703, 704:

"In proclaiming the truths of the everlasting gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, God's church on earth today is fulfilling the ancient prophecy, [Isaiah 27:6 quoted]. ... Today, as never before, the dissemination of Bible truth by means of a consecrated church is bringing to the sons of men the benefits foreshadowed centuries ago in the promise to Abraham and to all Israel,--to God's church on earth in every age,--'I will bless thee, . . . and thou shalt be a blessing.' Genesis 12:2.
"This promise of blessing should have met fulfillment in large measure during the centuries following the return of the Israelites from the lands of their captivity. It was God's design that the whole earth be prepared for the first advent of Christ, even as today the way is preparing for His second coming. At the end of the years of humiliating exile, God graciously gave to His people Israel, through Zechariah, the assurance: 'I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.' And of His people He said, 'Behold, . . . I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.' Zechariah 8:3, 7, 8.
"These promises were conditional on obedience."

Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Rosangela] #115046
06/24/09 01:38 PM
06/24/09 01:38 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Rosangela,

How could it be speaking of the Israelites before the first Advent? How would there be a "new heavens" and a "new earth" then? How is it that there would never be crying among them?

I have traveled in dozens of countries. I have lived in multiple countries, some nicer than others. Yet I have not found any place on earth without crying. I doubt a month has ever passed in my entire life without witnessing crying first hand. How do you think this would have been fulfilled for Israel?

And how is it that a child would be 100 years old? In the Bible, children are ordinarily adults at the age of 20, aren't they?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Green Cochoa] #115068
06/24/09 09:12 PM
06/24/09 09:12 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
GC,

I believe the expression "new heavens and new earth" just describe the new conditions of prosperity of the land of Israel. God would bless His people with exceptional health and longevity, material prosperity and superiority over all the other nations. Most of the reasons for crying would be removed, and in relation to those who died "old and full of days," there would be the hope of a soon-to-occur reunion at the coming of the Messiah, so in this sense there would be no reason for crying.
As to the sentence "for the child shall die a hundred years old," I think it becomes more difficult to explain if you apply it to the new earth after the millennium, doesn't it? JPS translates it "for the youngest shall die a hundred years old;" NIV: "he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth;" NASB: "For the youth will die at the age of one hundred."

Anyway, I'm not creating a new view. This is the position of the SDA Bible Commentary.

Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Rosangela] #115072
06/24/09 10:12 PM
06/24/09 10:12 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Ah...well, I don't buy it. The SDA Bible Commentary, with the exception of volume 7A, is not inspired, and in many cases flounders in defining a difficult passage. Take a look at their explanation of Ezekiel 4:4-6 if you want an example of what I mean by "flounder." The commentaries are usually right on the mark, but sometimes well off of it, depending on the passage.

No one is applying the 100 years here to the "New Earth," but rather to the "little space" as John the Revelator put it that would occur between the millennium and the New Earth.

I think you will have a hard time convincing me or anyone else here for that matter that if the Jews had been obedient they would have increased their lifespans to pre-flood quantities again just before Christ's first advent. That is essentially what your application of the NIV rendition would amount to, if applying this to a period of time just before the first advent.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Green Cochoa] #115077
06/25/09 12:19 AM
06/25/09 12:19 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think Ty's explanation makes sense. For convenience, repeating it:

Quote:
According to the first half of this verse there will never again be anyone in heaven who does not live out their years. In the context of the Bible, this means no more death at all (see Revelation 21:4). The second half of the verse is speaking in “what ifs.” “What if” a man in heaven died at 100 years of age, (he won’t because there is no more death in heaven, but if he did), he would be considered a “mere youth.” And if anyone failed to reach 100 years of age in heaven, (they won’t because we will all live out our years which are eternal), then he would be considered accursed of God. But, the Bible says, “Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship Him” Revelation 22:3, NRSV).(http://lbm.org/blog/)


What makes the passage difficult is that it apparently juxtaposes ideas which don't go together. Namely, it speaks of "new heavens and a new earth" and of a man dying at 100 years.

It looks like three alternatives have been suggested.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Tom] #115080
06/25/09 03:04 AM
06/25/09 03:04 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
i agree with roseangela in that things were supposed to go differently in israel, God had an original plan that israel did not cooperate with, but i believe there would have been a literal new heavens and new earth at some point.

lbm has a very special place in my heart. i see how time they spend with the Lord in their messages, but i also believe they came up with best answer they could think of on that strange passage.

i dont think we have to take the 100 years literally for the lost. the truth is it will take time to construct weapons, train an army, etc. but how much time?

what will be left on the earth? there is the destruction of the 2nd coming and burning by fire. so how much is left, or usable, and does that matter, because there will still have been a thousand years of decay. how long does steel and iron last? after the flood trees and plants sprang up all over. we dont seem to have any evidence of that happening after the 2nd coming.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Green Cochoa] #115094
06/25/09 03:29 PM
06/25/09 03:29 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Ah...well, I don't buy it.

To me it's the only explanation that makes sense. Try reading Ezekiel 38-48.

Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Rosangela] #115101
06/25/09 10:43 PM
06/25/09 10:43 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
in regard to this and a couple of other issues this point raises some questions for me.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

how long does this "life" last for the lost upon resurrection? they will get new bodies but not incorruptible bodies. a 95-yr-old who died of natural causes in our time will get a new body but how "youthful" will it be? would it survive for a 100 years? or have i answered my question?

what will these people be eating to stay alive? will there be water somewhere?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: teresaq] #115117
06/26/09 12:03 PM
06/26/09 12:03 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
What will these people be eating to stay alive? Will there be water somewhere?


One gets the impression there will be billions of people in close proximity. It does seem like this would be a sustainable situation for a prolonged period of time.

Also if they were alive for any significant period of time, one would think they would kill each other, at least some, as their characters would be the same as on earth. There would be rapists, child-abusers, murderers etc. Why would these do what they did in their first life?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The 100-year Theory at the End of the Millennium for the "Accursed" [Re: Green Cochoa] #123384
02/18/10 12:52 PM
02/18/10 12:52 PM
S
StewartC  Offline
Active Member 2011
Posting New Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 28
Arizona , USA
I wonder about something here... If the "little season" of Rev 20:3 is indeed 100 years long, then the following thought [from Great Controversy] raises a question.

"With military precision the serried ranks advance over the earth's broken and uneven surface to the City of God. By command of Jesus, the gates of the New Jerusalem are closed, and the armies of Satan surround the city and make ready for the onset." (GC 664)

Have the gates of the city been open up until this point?
It is clear that the ungodly cannot enter the city, and it is clear that there is no more probationary opportunity for them, but if the gates of the city are open for practically 100 years, why have they been open? Would the redeemed have any reason to be going out and in?

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