I agree with this too, although the condition not being met I think should be understood as simply the natural consequence of the harvest not being able to be matured, so that the judgment could not continue. If the latter rain had been received, it would have done its work to prepare the harvest, and things could have moved along.

I've always understood her to mean that the latter rain experience is available to those who receive the former rain - the work of repentance and confession and active faith etc. I don't claim to have received it myself. But I know it's available and I know from scripture and the inspired coursel that we are in the measuring time of the investigative judgment, but, it saddens me that so many Adventists don't think that God is able to give them the Holy Ghost in latter rain measure to them personally. For those who believe it's not possible, it's not possible. I believe He can and that He is "pouring out His Spirit on hearts all around us."

What do the rest of you think?

I have felt and seen a progressive work of the Holy Spirit in my life, and I have been feeling more and more the need for the Spirit, and I consider that the end is very near and so is the latter rain which will empower us to finish the work. But I consider that the Holy Spirit hasn't yet come in full measure.

I also don't consider that the latter rain has fallen yet, however, I do feel that it will happen sooner than we think.

In response to #114989, I don't think so (that the latter rain experience is necessarily available to those who receive the former rain). I think the latter rain is given corporately. That looks to be what happened in 1888. When the latter rain came, it came upon the whole church. The intent was from there it would be given to the world, but resistance to the message prevented that. Before it started falling, it wasn't available for anyone. After it stopped again, it wasn't either.

Just think of the symbol which represents it -- rain. Rain is not automatically available for any given person (it might not be raining). But if it is falling, then it is available, for anyone who wants it, if it's falling where they are.

We know it started to fall, from quotes like the following:



I agree with Rosangela's comment that it hasn't fallen in full measure. I believe this was because the message which began the work of bringing it was not accepted. As long as the message is rejected, I don't think it will come. I don't see how it could.

It's true, that the latter rain hasn't "come in full measure" as you say. But why? Is it unavailable?!


Would God tell us to pray for something that is impossible?

Regarding 1888, Ellen White says that the messages of Jones and waggoner on salvation were the clearest of any messages she'd heard except the understanding that she and her husband had discussed. In other words, the truths in her writings and James Whites writings were not less clearly presented than those by Jones and Waggoner and in fact Ellen White corrected both men on their theology more than once.. So the latter rain understanding isn't limited to 1888. The time of the end according to Christ began with the end time signs - the dark day and the falling of the stars, which is when the first angel's message began to sound by William Millar. That judgment hour message has been sounding ever since and is swelling to the Loud Cry. The reason we are to have the latter rain now is so that we can effectively repeat the judgment hour messages in their order. Current present truth is the message now committed to Adventism since the Disappointment in 1844 – that God is measuring the church. “Blessed are they that do His commandments that they may have right to the tree of life . . "

Mark, your inference here looks to be a bit off target. Her writings could NOT have clearly presented the messages of Jones and Waggoner based on what she said, which you referred to just above.

She said that the messages given she had not encountered except in *private* conversations with her husband. That means she did not encounter them in anything *public*.

In the same passage you are mentioning, Ellen White said she would be as a little child, to humbly learn all that God had in store for her. She presented herself as one who was receiving the light that God had sent through Jones and Waggoner. She did this consistently.

Regarding her correcting Jones and Waggoner's theology on more than one occasion, I believe I've read everything she wrote on the subject, over 2,000 pages anyway, and I don't think this is true. At least not during the time she was endorsing them, from 1888 through 1895. If you wish to dispute this, please present some evidence where she, on more than one occasion, corrected the theology of Jones and of Waggoner. I'm only aware of one incident regarding Waggoner, which was on a point which wasn't a major thrust, a point rarely mentioned by him. I'm not aware of any points regarding Jones, although she sent him a message where she told him of a dream, apparently a warning which Jones heeded. The dream referenced how Jones put things, but was not a correction of his theology.

At any rate, that the Lord was sending the latter rain through the message of Jones and Waggoner is clear in the quote I've been presenting. It's rather interesting that the latter rain comes in the form of a message, isn't it? It makes sense, though, when you think about it.

No! But judging from my own experience, I didn't understand my need of the Holy Spirit in the past as I understand it now. Why? I don't know! Since my conversion I have always walked before God with a sincere heart, but I didn't feel or understand that I needed the Spirit in a special sense. I didn't ask to be filled with the Spirit. And God wants us to feel the need before He gives the blessing.

I liked your answer Rosangela.

Tom, do you have that quote handy? If so, could you post it? I'm sure Ellen White learned things from Jones and Waggoner. She learned things from others too I think.