so the latter rain has to start to fall to give the message and continues through to strengthen us to stand in the time of trouble. or will those who receive the message not to receive the latter rain as well?

By judged do you mean the final judgement? I assume so -- and yes many have died thus their judgement is according to their response to the workings of the Holy Spirit prior to great outpouring of the Latter Rain.

However, the outpouring of the Latter Rain MUST come before final judgment of those who will live through the time of trouble.

Right now the judgment is ongoing --

"The cases of all are pending in the heavenly sanctuary. Day by day angels of God are watching the development of character, and weighing moral worth. In the judgement the question will not be, What profession did you make? but, What have you done for Me? What fruit have you borne to My glory? Now is the time to prepare for the coming of the King. {ST, April 12, 1905 par. 16}

The final seal happens during the Latter Rain. Not before and not after. There are two distinct, yet similar sealings in scripture. One is ongoing -- a process wrought in us by the Holy Spirit, changing our lives as we daily yield ourselves to God's will. The other is a seal placed at the end of time upon those who are forever to be citizens of God's kingdom.

The latter rain brings the first "sealing work" to maturity and fits the person for the final, extremely important, seal. The judgement determines who receives this final seal, this final "stamp" acknowledging them as the children of God. Those who have not responded to the former rain thus cannot receive the latter rain and are left without shelter in the time of trouble.

Every saved person who lives through the final trouble when probation closes and the plagues fall will have
1. Been judged as faithful
2. Received the latter rain
3. Received the final seal

In this sense the judgement starts with God's faithful,
They receive the latter rain and witness powerfully.
Those who respond to this last powerful witness for truth, and fully commit to God, also receive the latter rain.
Thus all receive the latter rain and are sealed just prior to the close of probation and the great time of trouble such as never was takes place.

there are two seals.

but one is receiving the character of God, which all since Christs day have been receiving that have surrendered/submitted to the Holy Spirit on an ongoing basis.

the second seal is the 4th commandment which, such as a presidential seal, when the test comes, will be a sign of those who have fully accepted the character of Christ.

and here is for those who wish it.

The time of trouble--trouble such as was not since there was a nation [Daniel 12:1]--is right upon us, and we are like the sleeping virgins. We are to awake and

ask the Lord Jesus to place underneath us

His everlasting arms,

and carry us through the time of trial before us.
--3MR 305 (1906). {LDE 12.2}

Indeed - that pretty much wipes out the 1800's as a time for the judgment of the living to have started.

in Christ,

Bob

The harmony between that Ellen White statement in 1888 and the 1901 statemetn is that in "measuring" the Judgment is looking at the books of record. The books of record get their content from your "recording Angel" according to Ellen White. It is a review of THAT record that takes place when your name comes up.

So her emphasis is on just what that recording angel is writing down - it is not a statement that "now your name has come up and now you are being evaluated" in the courts above as the 1901 statement clearly demonstrates.

in Christ,

Bob

she is arguing for a future time when it will fall and saying that when that happens we may not recognize it if we are spiritually asleep.

But in Maranatha 200 - 201 it is clear that the latter rain does not fall until after the National Sunday Law is passed.

in Christ,

Bob

Nope. My question is valid no matter what one believes about the 144,000 and the Great Multitude. What thinkest thou?

Actually, my question concerns those who will be translated alive when Jesus arrives.


I agree.


Yes, the investigative of the dead began in 1844 and is going on right now. Are you suggesting the investigative judgment of the living is also going on right now? If so, when do you think it began?


I agree.


Ellen White wrote: "Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul-temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost. {CET 189.2} "Unless the early showers have done their work, the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection. {FLB 333.3}

Here she says the LR will only fall on those who perfected their characters under the power and influence of the ER. In what sense, therefore, do you think the LR will add to what was accomplished under the ER? Is it personal or corporate or both?


I agree. But, again, when do you think God began pouring out the LR? Also, do you think those who receive the LR will die before Jesus returns?

The Latter Rain does not begin until after the saints of God are sealed (Maranatha 200-201) and until after the National Sunday Law.

The Great Multitude of Rev 7 are not the same thing as the 144,000 'in number' who are translated. They are the larger group of saints.

in Christ,

Bob