I'm not sure I follow you, Teresaq. Ellen White wrote, ". . . they dared to attribute His judgments to Satan . . ." Are you saying they were correct in saying Satan is the one who actually killed the 250 with fire?

I think what you are implying is that the question is, if Moses and Aaron caused the death of good and holy men through the power of the evil one or through the power of the Good One.

Is it possible neither are true?

Did Moses and Aaron cause any death? I haven't read it recently nor can get a view from your brief quote. It just seems like some good questions one should ask.

1.Did Moses and Aaron cause the death of good men by the power of Satan?
2.Did Moses and Aaron cause the death of bad men by the power of God? (or, equivalently, God caused their death, but Moses and Aaron played some sort of auxiliary role).
3.Did bad men die because they rejected God, whereupon He withdrew His protective hand, and they were killed, while God was blamed for it?

Are these the possibilities?

I think a few questions need to be asked and answered, as follows:

1- If God doesn't do any destruction Himself, then in the end who destroys the devil and his fallen angels in the Lake of Fire?

2- (a) Where does the Lake of Fire come from? (b) Does it come from God or the devil?

3- Does the devil destroy all the fallen angels by casting them in the Lake of Fire, and then destroys himself, as in suicide, by jumping into the Lake of Fire?

i dont know how you read that into what i wrote....

repositioning the phrases, the people said that: "Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men" "through the power of the evil one". they accused moses and aaron of following satan. they were accusing moses and aaron of having followed satan-instead of God- all along. they were saying that moses and aaron deliberately called on satan to destroy "good and holy men".

In keeping with Teresaq's quest to carefully and prayerfully study PP 404 I submit the following questions:

1. Why did God display His displeasure?
2. How did God display His displeasure?
3. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "the most striking manifestations of His power"?
4. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "they attributed them all to human or satanic agency"?
5. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "they dared to attribute His judgments to Satan"?
6. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "declaring that through the power of the evil one"?
7. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men"?
8. What did Ellen White mean when she wrote "It was this act that sealed their doom"?

Here is how I answer these questions:

1. For the same reasons He displayed His displeasure on other occasions, namely, to punish sin and rebellion, to check the tide of evil, to protect and preserve the innocent, to demonstrate justice.
2. By causing the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious.
3. God manifested His power in striking ways.
4. The rebellious did not give God credit for causing the striking things they witnessed.
5. The 250 did not give God credit for causing the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious.
6. The 250 credited the power of the evil one for causing the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious.
7. The 250 blamed Moses and Aaron for cooperating with the power of the evil one and causing the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious.
8. The 250 sealed their doom (destroyed by fire from God) because they credited Moses and Aaron and Satan for something God Himself did, that is, causing the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious.

PS - Of course there are other aspects involved, but these questions and answers pertain to the content of PP 404 itself.

Regarding the destruction of the wicked, I'll answer the question in two ways, one general, and one more specific.

First general. The death of the wicked will be like Jesus' death. Jesus was not killed by being literally burned by fire. Christ said, "My heart melts like wax." There was fire involved in Christ's death, but it wasn't literal fire.

Also if we simply consider the scenario, we need to ask if we think God would be capable of the cruelty of depositing someone into something like a cauldron of molten lava and watching as the person writhes in pain for many days or many hours. Of course God would have to supernaturally keep the person alive, since such a fire would destroy one in a matter of seconds.

Second specific:



I quoted this at length to get the full context. Please note the underlined passage. The "consuming fire" is God's presence. It is the glory of God (which is His character) which destroys the wicked.

Here's a sister passage:



Of special interest is the fact that the same thing that gives life to the righteous is what slays the wicked. Therefore it cannot be literal fire which slays the wicked, since it is not literal fire which gives life to the righteous.

The "light of the glory of God" = "the revelation of God's character," which is made clear by the context.

From these passages we can see that the problem for the wicked is that the revelation of God's character makes manifest to men their sin. Apart from the grace of God (which they have rejected), this is something which cannot be born.

MM, your explanation would have God's overcoming rebellion by force and violence. Yet the SOP tells us that God would not overcome rebellion by force, and that force is not a principle of God's government. For example:

Oh, now I see what you meant. Sorry for being so dense. It's an affliction I live with. So, it sounds like you agree with me that the 250 blamed/credited Moses and Aaron and Satan for something God did, namely, cause the earth to open up and swallow the rebellious. Or, has my denseness gotten in the way again?

Why do you label it "force" and "violence"? Is punishment a form of force and violence?

How do you answer the questions above regarding PP 404?