HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,214
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
asygo 29
Rick H 26
kland 16
November
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,245
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
9 registered members (dedication, daylily, TheophilusOne, Daryl, Karen Y, 4 invisible), 2,495 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 18 of 91 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 90 91
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115331
07/02/09 04:14 PM
07/02/09 04:14 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
You may quote the encyclopedia if you like. I will quote the Spirit of Prophecy.


The whole question is what the fire from heaven is. If you simply quote something that says the "fire from heaven" is "fire from heaven," that's not helping. If, on the other hand, we say something like

Quote:
The expressions “fire from heaven” and “fire of the Lord” generally denote lightning, but sometimes also the fire of the altar was so called.


that does help. This is dealing with what a Biblical phrase meant.

Quote:
First of all, the Empire State Building was the tallest in the world for many years, and has ample reason for being struck so frequently. Similarly, as Elijah was on the hill above the soldiers, he had more chance of being struck than they did.

California is the third largest state in our union, and "Northern California" is a rather large and mountainous region with lots of tall trees, including the tallest trees in the world. So those statistics do not surprise me.


The point I was making is that it's not surprising that the same spot would be struck twice. You said it's pretty amazing that lighting would strike twice in the same area, so I was explaining why it's not.

Regarding Elijah's being on a hill, that's just one factor. There are other factors. I mentioned one; Elijah could have been near a tree or trees while the others weren't. Another factor is Elijah wasn't wearing metal, while the soldiers were likely wearing armor, probably bronze with copper, which would conduct electricity well. I understand that, in particular, the Syrians' armor had a lot of copper in it, and they adorned themselves with armor from head to toe.

Quote:
Thank you. That was my point. And it happens TWICE, and it would have happened again, I am sure, if the commander of the third company had not been so humble.


I hadn't considered the armor angle before. Bringing that into account, it's not so extraordinary. If you took a bunch of soldiers arrayed in armor standing close to one another, it doesn't seem so surprising they could all get zapped.

Quote:
GC:Hmm....and while we're at it, why would God ask people to do His "dirty work?"

T:To my mind, this phrasing of the question places God's character in an unbecoming light. Do you disagree?

GC:Yes, I disagree.


So the question, "Hmm....and while we're at it, why would God ask people to do His "dirty work?" doesn't seem to you to be putting God in a bad light? You have no qualms about speaking of God's doing "dirty work"?

Quote:
GC:Considering that He does ask others to kill (as brought out in the above quote), perhaps He is not so against killing as we might think.


To me it's astounding, and rather scary, to see one write something like this. It's astounding because the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" should make it clear that God is against killing. In addition, the life and teachings of Christ should have made that clear, even if we didn't have the commandment. It's scary because if you don't think God is against killing, you might be inclined to kill yourself.

The question if God asks others to kill is one that has considered at length in another thread. In particular, I've had this discussion with MM. There's a story about a father who's son is a hunter that brings out the point well, I think.

Quote:
Tom, the problem is that your narrow viewpoint on whether or not God kills has become your focus in these other topics as well.


I don't think this is stating things accurately. I tend a lot more to respond to the points and questions others make than to bring up these things myself. If you look through the thread, I think you'll find this is the case here as well.

Quote:
It seems impossible to actually get down to the core of the question of the plagues with you until you can understand that God does indeed act in justice.


I, of course, believe that God acts in justice. I don't think He acts in violence. It seems from your statement that you don't think it's possible to have justice without violence. This is what you think? If not, I don't know how to make sense of your assertion here.

Quote:
"Vengeance is mine," He says. And the plagues are His vengeance.


I think it's a pity that you think God can only take vengeance by acting violently. At least, this appears to be what you think. I disagree with this idea.

Quote:
Do you think God would have not honored David's choice? Would He instead have just turned David over to his enemies by "permitting" them to act? (Are not the devil and his angels "enemies"?)


I can't follow your train of thought at all here, GC. What I've been saying is that I believe that force and violence are not principles by which God governs. I think the following makes this clear:

Quote:
God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power.(DA 759)


There are many such statements in the SOP. I think we need to bear in mind these, and similar principles, when we seek to interpret Scripture.

Secondly, I don't believe we can properly understand God's character without taking into account Christ's life and teachings. The whole purpose of Christ's mission on earth was the revelation of God. Given this is the case, shouldn't we consider it?

I find it incredible that in post after post on this subject, Jesus Christ isn't even mentioned.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #115332
07/02/09 04:39 PM
07/02/09 04:39 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Tom
I find it incredible that in post after post on this subject, Jesus Christ isn't even mentioned.


This last sentence of yours may explain where you have not understood my post. Perhaps you should read it.

I just counted the references to God in it, excluding quotes from your post, i.e. my own material. I counted 31, including God, Lord, Savior, Lamb, Jesus, Christ, etc. This only includes my most recent post, as the post before that also mentioned God. Yes, this tally includes, in part, the statements from Mrs. White which I quoted. However, those statements say what I believe on the subject, and as such, represent my thoughts here. Nor have I seen you answer regarding them. Does not Mrs. White say explicitly that God commanded the killing? Do you wish to reject Mrs. White, Tom?

Of course, if God and Jesus are different in your eyes, maybe we need to start a thread on that too.

Mrs. White and the Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and I feel safer being guided by them than by a mountain of human interpretation or opinion, including my own. All of us wrestle with understanding God and His character. We may never understand fully. God is more than any one word or thought can capture.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115333
07/02/09 04:55 PM
07/02/09 04:55 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Regarding the meaning of "fire of the Lord," saying it is merely "lightning" falls far short of its true meaning.

Originally Posted By: The Holy Bible
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. (Deuteronomy 4:24, KJV)

Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. (Deuteronomy 9:3, KJV)

For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:29, KJV)

However, I would not choose to call God "lightning", nor view Him as "Zeus."

Remember the "Pillar of Fire"?
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
In the manifestation of God to His people, light had ever been a symbol of His presence. At the creative word in the beginning, light had shone out of darkness. Light had been enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night, leading the vast armies of Israel. Light blazed with awful grandeur about the Lord on Mount Sinai. Light rested over the mercy seat in the tabernacle. Light filled the temple of Solomon at its dedication. Light shone on the hills of Bethlehem when the angels brought the message of redemption to the watching shepherds. {DA 464.2}

Those who ignorantly join the ranks of the enemy, and echo the words of their religious teachers, in the desk, that the law of God is no longer binding upon the human family, will have light to discover their errors, if they will accept the evidence of God's Word. Jesus was the angel enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night, and He gave special direction that the Hebrews should teach the law of God, given when the foundation of the earth was laid, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy. {1SM 315.2}


Tongues of fire came down upon the disciples in the upper room at Pentecost. The burning bush story never mentions lightning, nor was the bush burned. In other words, I do not view the "fire of the Lord" as being equivalent to the natural phenomenon we call "lightning." It is different. Just as there was a difference in the temple between "holy fire" and "common fire" or "strange fire," so also is there a difference between ordinary fire and the fire of God.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115334
07/02/09 05:14 PM
07/02/09 05:14 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
GC:Regarding the meaning of "fire of the Lord," saying it is merely "lightning" falls far short of its true meaning.

For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. (Deuteronomy 4:24, KJV)

Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. (Deuteronomy 9:3, KJV)

For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:29, KJV)


This is rather confusing. You start out by saying that to consider that "fire from heaven" is "merely lightening" falls far short of its true meaning, and then quote some verses which seem to have nothing to do with the subject. In the one hand, we have "fire from heaven," which evidently refers to some physical phenomenon, then on the other are a number of verses which refer to God Himself -- not a physical phenomenon. Is it your contention that the "fire from heaven" was God Himself (as opposed to literal fire or literal lightening)?

Quote:
However, I would not choose to call God "lightning", nor view Him as "Zeus."


It seems to me that you actually do view Him rather like Zeus. He sits in heaven destroying His enemies by violent means, just as Zeus would do.

Quote:
Tongues of fire came down upon the disciples in the upper room at Pentecost. The burning bush story never mentions lightning, nor was the bush burned. In other words, I do not view the "fire of the Lord" as being equivalent to the natural phenomenon we call "lightning." It is different. Just as there was a difference in the temple between "holy fire" and "common fire" or "strange fire," so also is there a difference between ordinary fire and the fire of God.


I think what the Bible Encyclopedia said is more plausible. There doesn't seem to be any evidence in Scripture that the "fire from heaven" which destroyed the soldiers was some odd kind of fire. Even less that had anything to do with the tongues of fire that came upon the disciples on Pentecost.

I think it's interesting that you bring up the burning bush in this regard. It seems to me that it's the bush that has the uncommon characteristic (of not being consumed by fire) rather than the fire being unusual.

But this whole line of reasoning seems to be circular. You have a view of God that causes you to view the story in a certain way. There's certainly nothing that precludes the statement of The Bible Encyclopedia from being the case.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #115335
07/02/09 05:53 PM
07/02/09 05:53 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
T:I find it incredible that in post after post on this subject, Jesus Christ isn't even mentioned.

GC:This last sentence of yours may explain where you have not understood my post. Perhaps you should read it.


This seems to me to be rather sarcastic and hurtful. Do you disagree? (specifically "Perhaps you should read it." Something like "It appears you didn't understand my post" would not have been sarcastic.)

Quote:
I just counted the references to God in it, excluding quotes from your post, i.e. my own material.

I counted 31, including God, Lord, Savior, Lamb, Jesus, Christ, etc. This only includes my most recent post, as the post before that also mentioned God. Yes, this tally includes, in part, the statements from Mrs. White which I quoted. However, those statements say what I believe on the subject, and as such, represent my thoughts here. Nor have I seen you answer regarding them. Does not Mrs. White say explicitly that God commanded the killing? Do you wish to reject Mrs. White, Tom?


My point was that no attempt has been made to consider Jesus Christ's life and teachings in attempted to understand God's actions. Mrs. White explicitly says that all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son (the context being, while here in the flesh). That being the case, doesn't it make sense that we should study His life and character to understand the violent actions we see in Scripture ascribed to God?

Regarding God's commanding, often in inspiration we see God being portrayed as doing that which He permits. For example:

Quote:
19And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. (1 Kings 22)


There are many examples of this in inspiration. God killed Saul. God sent fiery serpents upon the Israelites. God sent His armies to destroy Jerusalem. Yet in each of these case, inspiration tells us God Himself did *not* do these things.

So how do we know if, when we read somewhere that God did something, whether or not God actually did it, or if it was something He permitted? I submit we can only correctly determine which is the case by studying the life and character of His Son Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Of course, if God and Jesus are different in your eyes, maybe we need to start a thread on that too.


This has been my whole point, that God is like Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "When you've seen me, you've seen the Father." You are suggesting behavior of God which I don't see in Jesus Christ. Is it possible that God and Jesus are different in your eyes? And perhaps you are unaware that this is the case?

It seems to me that God and Jesus are different in all of our eyes. This is one of the problems we have. John speaks to this here:

Quote:
18No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like. (John 1:18;CEV)


Because we *didn't* know what God was like, God became flesh, so that we could see what He is really like. You can see how excited John was about this here:

Quote:
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (1 John 1:1)


He brings out how he saw Jesus, heard Him, and touched Him. Here was God made flesh, God in a tangible form, that could be apprehended by humans. Then Jesus tells us that this God, made visible by Himself, is just like He is.

Now your view of God presents Him as violent and vengeful. So, given that Jesus Christ is like God, where in Jesus' life and character do you see Jesus being violent or vengeful?

Quote:
Mrs. White and the Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and I feel safer being guided by them than by a mountain of human interpretation or opinion, including my own. All of us wrestle with understanding God and His character. We may never understand fully. God is more than any one word or thought can capture.


Given you feel safe being guided by her, let's consider some of her guidance:

Quote:
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. (8T 286)


Quote:
Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.(ST 1/20/90)


Quote:
It would be well for us to spend a thoughtful hour each day in contemplation of the life of Christ. We should take it point by point, and let the imagination grasp each scene, especially the closing ones. As we thus dwell upon His great sacrifice for us, our confidence in Him will be more constant, our love will be quickened, and we shall be more deeply imbued with His spirit. If we would be saved at last, we must learn the lesson of penitence and humiliation at the foot of the cross. (DA 83)


He we have wonderful counsel as to how we can understand God's character.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115336
07/02/09 06:09 PM
07/02/09 06:09 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

Of course, if God and Jesus are different in your eyes, maybe we need to start a thread on that too.

both the bible and sop tend to use God to refer to the Father to differentiate between the members of Deity. as in God was in heaven while Jesus was here on earth. i could use some tactics of others at this point but i wont.

i have never seen any evidence of antitrinitarianism in tom so im not sure what the point is here, unless were starting to deal with the person instead of the issue.

but having read the thread start to finish it is clear, at least as i understood the posts, that tom is saying we should be taking Christs life into consideration of what God would or would not do.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #115337
07/02/09 06:13 PM
07/02/09 06:13 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Tom,

No, of course I am not trying to hurt you, nor was I speaking sarcastically. I'm sorry if you understood it that way.

Regardless of the point you were making, to say that Jesus Christ was not mentioned when such was not actually the case is well...I preferred to believe you just hadn't read carefully (which is why I offered you the advice on reading it). Did you really mean to say, after having read it, that my post made no mention of Him?

I'm not understanding something here.

Nevermind all that. What I would like an answer to is whether or not you accept that it was an angel of the Lord that brought death to thousands of the Israelites as David's punishment. Mrs. White and the Bible both say so. Do you accept this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115338
07/02/09 06:28 PM
07/02/09 06:28 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Tom,
Nevermind all that. What I would like an answer to is whether or not you accept that it was an angel of the Lord that brought death to thousands of the Israelites as David's punishment. Mrs. White and the Bible both say so. Do you accept this?


this is sounding rather intimidating. i hear, believe as i do or else. here are a couple of items turned up in doing a search on "investigate".

Cannot you question and investigate with one another? Indeed you can. But the great trouble is that self is so large in us all that just as soon as we begin to investigate, we will do it in such an unchristian manner. It has been done here in Battle Creek; it was done in Minneapolis; it has been done in many other places. God is not in any such work as that at all; it is the devil that is in such work as that. We want to come to the Scriptures with humble hearts. If God has a work for us we are ready for it, and we want to know that it is the truth for ourselves, and thus you be driven to your Bibles. You must be driven to them. {1888 565.1}

Those who have entered upon the work of teaching, or who have been called to any position of responsibility, should not be satisfied to take the product of the researches of other minds, but they should investigate truth for themselves. If they do not form the habit of investigating themes of truth for themselves, they will become superficial in their life and acquirements. The opinions of your associates may be of value to you, but you should not rely upon them and have no definite ideas of your own. You should examine the truths you have been led to believe, until you know that they are without a flaw. You lose much when you do not bring every point of faith you hold to the law and to the testimony, for you do not see or appreciate the truth as it is. Oh, that all our youth might appreciate the privilege that God has given! It is His will that you should go to the source of all light, and receive the enlightenment of His Spirit (for this will be given to every humble seeker for truth), and then you will know that the Spirit and the Word agree, and know that you know what is truth. What assurance this knowledge gives! You can then speak with power, proclaiming what you have learned as truth, knowing that you have not followed cunningly devised fables.--TSS 58-61. {CSW 33.1}

In the days of Christ there were many who incurred deep guilt because they denounced His teaching without carefully investigating its claims to their attention. . . . {11MR 292.1}

I am glad that a time has come when something will stir our people to investigate the points of our faith for themselves. . . . My cry has been: Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves, and know for yourselves what saith the Lord. No man is to be authority for us. If he has received his light from the Bible so may we also go to the same source for light and proof to substantiate the doctrines which we believe. The Scriptures teach that we should give a reason of the hope that is within us with meekness and fear.--Letter 7, 1888, pp. 3, 4. (To Brother Healey, December 9, 1888.)


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: plagues [Re: Tom] #115339
07/02/09 06:33 PM
07/02/09 06:33 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Tom
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Mrs. White and the Bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and I feel safer being guided by them than by a mountain of human interpretation or opinion, including my own. All of us wrestle with understanding God and His character. We may never understand fully. God is more than any one word or thought can capture.


Given you feel safe being guided by her, let's consider some of her guidance:

Quote:
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. (8T 286)


Quote:
Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.(ST 1/20/90)

Tom, I am guided by both the Bible and Mrs. White. It is possible that with too narrow a base, I may be misguided. The Bible says the following, which helps me to understand Mrs. White's words.
Originally Posted By: The Bible
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (John 1:9, KJV)

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18, KJV)

Together with the verse you quoted about no man having ever seen God at any time, John 1:9 tells me that every time in the Old Testament that we see "God" dealing with the children of Israel, speaking to Abraham face to face, speaking to Moses face to face, etc. it is really speaking of "Jesus." Jesus was not yet begotten in those days. He was not yet named "Jesus" nor "Christ." Yet He led His people, and He was God.

So, when speaking to Old Testament issues, to speak of God is to speak of Jesus. For example "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." We know from other verses in the Bible that it was Jesus who created everything.

Once we have this understanding, it lays the groundwork for the next one which is that Jesus has been revealing His character from the very beginning, and not only during His human life here. All through the "Old Testament" history we see how Jesus has revealed to us His character.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: plagues [Re: Green Cochoa] #115342
07/02/09 07:08 PM
07/02/09 07:08 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Together with the verse you quoted about no man having ever seen God at any time, John 1:9 tells me that every time in the Old Testament that we see "God" dealing with the children of Israel, speaking to Abraham face to face, speaking to Moses face to face, etc. it is really speaking of "Jesus." Jesus was not yet begotten in those days. He was not yet named "Jesus" nor "Christ." Yet He led His people, and He was God.

So, when speaking to Old Testament issues, to speak of God is to speak of Jesus. For example "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." We know from other verses in the Bible that it was Jesus who created everything.

Once we have this understanding, it lays the groundwork for the next one which is that Jesus has been revealing His character from the very beginning, and not only during His human life here. All through the "Old Testament" history we see how Jesus has revealed to us His character.
first the bible:
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

now the sop.
The Father and the Son engaged in the mighty, wondrous work they had contemplated, of creating the world. The earth came forth from the hand of the Creator exceedingly beautiful.... {1SP 24.1}
After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, "Let us make man in our image." ... {1SP 24.2}

yes, this was Jesus. but notice that it doesnt say God, which in the ot would have been elohiym.
Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

but toms point comes from the direct counsel of ellen white.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Page 18 of 91 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 90 91

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
What are the seven kings of Rev. 17:10?
by Rick H. 11/23/24 07:31 AM
No mail in Canada?
by Rick H. 11/22/24 06:45 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 11/21/24 11:03 AM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 11/20/24 02:31 AM
The 2024 Election, the Hegelian Dialectic
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 08:26 PM
"The Lord's Day" and Ignatius
by dedication. 11/15/24 02:19 AM
The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans
by dedication. 11/14/24 04:00 PM
Will Trump be able to lead..
by dedication. 11/13/24 07:13 PM
Is Lying Ever Permitted?
by kland. 11/13/24 05:04 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 11/13/24 04:06 PM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 11/13/24 02:23 AM
Good and Evil of Higher Critical Bible Study
by dedication. 11/12/24 07:31 PM
The Great White Throne
by dedication. 11/12/24 06:39 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by TruthinTypes. 11/05/24 12:19 AM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 07:25 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by dedication. 11/24/24 04:13 AM
Dr Ben Carson: Church and State
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:12 PM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:51 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:35 PM
Private Schools
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:54 AM
The Church is Suing the State of Maryland
by Rick H. 11/16/24 04:43 PM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by TheophilusOne. 11/16/24 08:53 AM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 11/15/24 06:11 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 11/05/24 03:16 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1