Pardon my intromission, but unholy thoughts or unholy suggestions can come from the devil; I think they can also come from memories of your past life. But if they are instantly repelled they don't mature into a desire.

It seems like the word "desire" hasn't been well defined. If you're tempted, but you have no desire to do the thing tempted, this isn't really being tempted. Ellen White speaks of it in terms of being "strongly moved," as I recall.

If one is tempted to do something like get a root canal, that's not very difficult to say "No!" too. Were the things Christ had to say "No!" to things like root canals and eating Brussels sprouts?

On the other hand "desire" can mean something more sinister, which seems to be how you are using it. Webster's defines it as:



In this sense it's easy to see that a converted person could not have a desire to sin.

A synonym of being tempted is being enticed. Something enticing is



There has to be something to "hit against" in order for a thing to be enticed. In the case of Eve, the only thing to "hit against" was a suggestion on the part of Satan. However, this isn't the only way we are tempted. In order for Christ to be tempted as we are tempted, more than simply being presented suggestions by Satan is necessary. It certainly wouldn't have been necessary for Christ to share our heredity if this is all there was to it.

So when Jesus was tempted in all points that we are, he had a desire for those things?


Here's an example of heredity:
Did Jesus have the same "almost unconquerable tendencies to evil" as these children did/do? Was His mother selfish, peevish and exacting too? Did Jesus share this same heredity?

But more than heredity, we are tempted by the MEMORY of past indulgence in sinful pleasures. For instance, I used to eat crab. All you good SDAs out there have no business knowing how good it tastes. But IMO, it is the best tasting thing I've ever eaten, Hebrew National hotdogs included.

For years after I became a "good" SDA, I was still tempted by it, still had difficulty resisting it when served during family gatherings and such. But, glad to report, I said "No" every time.

Was Jesus also tempted by remembering the great taste of crab? Did He desire it as I did?

Furthermore, did He ever get to the point when He no longer desired it, when crab no longer tempted Him?

Just like the iniquities He took upon Himself were our iniquities. In short, the sinful nature He took made Him "have a sinful nature" as much as the sin He took made Him "have sin."

On the contrary, Jesus would have detested crab. I should know. I have been a lifelong vegetarian. When in Thailand, asking for vegetarian food is tricky, because invariably, the cook will think "vegetarian" still allows one to eat fish, shrimp, and crab. I have, therefore, gotten "accidental doses" of the stuff, and to me it tasted awful. My palate is simply not adjusted toward meat, and any form of meat tastes disgusting to me. A similar reaction can be observed in people who have grown to adulthood without ever having tasted cheese--the first time they taste it, it tastes rotten to them. They say it's "an acquired taste."

How could Jesus have acquired a taste for something He never tasted? How could Jesus at the same time have been a sin-hating, perfect being, and a sin-loving, self-restraining one?

Sorry, I'm not convinced that He ever toppled into the sin addiction. His problem was not overcoming an existing addiction, His struggle was to keep from ever falling in the first place, by constant reliance on God and constant watchfulness.

(Of course, Asygo, I know this is what you were getting at in your post.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Buddhists believe all desire is bad. Be a Buddhist and you must eat whatever is set before you with neither enjoyment nor distaste. Be a Buddhist and you must never enjoy nor dislike anything. Both are extremes to be shunned.

I'm glad I'm not a Buddhist.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Aren't sinners condemned based on the sins they commit rather than on the sinful clamoring that wages within them (the temptations that originate internally)?

The desire I'm talking about is the "lusts and affections" of sinful flesh nature. These constitute internally generated temptations. God does not count people guilty of sin based on the sinful clamorings of fallen flesh nature. Nor are we condemned based on them.

But, again, your question implies you believe people are guilty of sin based on the temptations generated and communicated by sinful flesh nature, which in turn implies you believe sinful flesh nature will cease tempting people from within when the insight Ellen White shared above is a reality. Is this what you believe?

Do you see a difference between the desires of fallen flesh nature and the desires of the new man? Ellen White wrote:

The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it. The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God. We are commanded to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. How shall we do it? Shall we inflict pain on the body? No; but put to death the temptation to sin. The corrupt thought is to be expelled. Every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ. All animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher powers of the soul. The love of God must reign supreme; Christ must occupy an undivided throne. Our bodies are to be regarded as His purchased possession. The members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness. {AH 127.2}

What do you think is the origin of "the corrupt thought", "the temptation to sin" that must be "put to death"? And, do you think it's possible in this lifetime to eliminate this source and/or avenue of temptation?

His flesh was desirous of Him expressing its temptations in accordance with its "lusts and affections".


Yes, of course, Jesus was tempted in all points in the same way and for the same reasons we are tempted - and then some! However, it is not a sin to be tempted, therefore, Jesus was not contaminated or corrupted.


Amen! Crab is very good tasting. And even after I chose to imitate Jesus' example I can still say, without sinning, that crab is very good tasting. Such a fact poses no threat to me while I'm abiding in Jesus. I have no desire to eat crab. I do desire food that tastes good. Was Jesus ever tempted with such memories? Well, He bore our sins about in His body, right! What does this entail? Is it possible it included all the temptations associated with having sinned? I think it does. Did He desire to eat crab? No, of course not. Did His sinful flesh nature desire for Him to eat crab. Most likely.


I agree. He didn't pretend to have a sinful flesh nature. Nor did He pretend to bear our sins about in His body. Jesus was "identical" to us in every way except He never indulged the unholy desires and clamorings of His sinful flesh nature.