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Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: Charity] #115029
06/24/09 03:11 AM
06/24/09 03:11 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
I have had the question asked, "What do you think of this light that these men are presenting? Why, I have been presenting it to you for the last 45 years--the matchless charms of Christ. This is what I have been trying to present before your minds. When Brother Waggoner brought out these ideas in Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband. I have said to myself, It is because God has presented it to me in vision that I see it so clearly, and they cannot see it because they have never had it presented to them as I have. And when another presented it, every fiber of my heart said, Amen. (1888 Mat. 348)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: Tom] #115596
07/06/09 08:41 PM
07/06/09 08:41 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
bump for teresa


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: Tom] #115597
07/06/09 08:43 PM
07/06/09 08:43 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
bump for teresa
thanks.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: Rosangela] #115607
07/06/09 10:45 PM
07/06/09 10:45 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, then the sins of the repentant soul who has received the grace of Christ and has overcome through the blood of the Lamb, will be removed from the records of heaven, and will be placed upon Satan, the scapegoat, the originator of sin, and be remembered no more against him forever. -- Signs of the Times, May 16, 1895. {3SM 355.5}

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." He marks our contrition of soul; and our sins will go beforehand to judgment; and when the times of refreshing shall come, they will be blotted out by the blood of the Lamb, and our names will be retained in the Lamb's book of life. {RH, May 7, 1889 par. 6}
you all do come up with some stuff that gives one a serious mental shift.

i have to see this differently than what i have been taught it meant. it now looks like the "refreshing" is when Christ leaves the sanctuary. unless there are several "presences" of the Lord that we are looking for.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: teresaq] #115741
07/10/09 01:26 AM
07/10/09 01:26 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
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I don't think it's necessarily when Christ leaves the sanctuary, but just before -- it does appear to be part of receiving the final seal -- that is, the final decision has been made concerning that person's salvation.

These fully committed ones receive the latter rain and give a powerful witness that brings many others to accept Christ before Christ actually leaves the sanctuary. It also "stirs up" the unbelievers against them and the final great time of trouble follows swiftly.



Here's just a few quotes to consider:

Quote:
I saw that many were neglecting the preparation so needful, and were looking to the time of "refreshing" and the "latter rain" to fit them to stand in the day of the Lord, and to live in His sight. Oh, how many I saw in the time of trouble without a shelter! They had neglected the needful preparation, therefore they could not receive the refreshing that all must have to fit them to live in the sight of a holy God. {CET 112.3}
Those who refuse to be hewed by the prophets, and fail to purify their souls in obeying the whole truth,
and who are willing to believe that their condition is far better than it really is, will come up to the time of the falling of the plagues, and then see that they needed to be hewed and squared for the building. But there will be no time then to do it and no Mediator to plead their cause before the Father. Before this time the awfully solemn declaration has gone forth, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still." {CET 112.4}
I saw that none could share the "refreshing," unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action. We should, therefore, be drawing nearer and nearer to the Lord, and be earnestly seeking that preparation necessary to enable us to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord. Let all remember that God is holy, and that none but holy beings can ever dwell in His presence. {CET 113.1}

I heard those clothed with the armor speak forth the truth with great power. It had effect. Many had been bound; some wives by their husbands, and some children by their parents. The honest who had been prevented from hearing the truth now eagerly laid hold upon it. All fear of their relatives was gone, and the truth alone was exalted to them. They had been hungering and thirsting for truth; it was dearer and more precious than life. I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered, "It is the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, the loud cry of the third angel." {CET 177.2}

Great power was with these chosen ones. Said the angel, "Look ye!" My attention was turned to the wicked, or unbelievers. They were all astir. The zeal and power with the people of God had aroused and enraged them. {CET 177.3}

Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: dedication] #115743
07/10/09 02:35 AM
07/10/09 02:35 AM
teresaq  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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Originally Posted By: dedication
I don't think it's necessarily when Christ leaves the sanctuary, but just before -- it does appear to be part of receiving the final seal -- that is, the final decision has been made concerning that person's salvation.

These fully committed ones receive the latter rain and give a powerful witness that brings many others to accept Christ before Christ actually leaves the sanctuary. It also "stirs up" the unbelievers against them and the final great time of trouble follows swiftly.
i think were agreed about the "just before".

but i think the second paragraph doesnt quite fit. otherwise were talking about two different "sealings" for two different sets of people.

i think the latter rain does make those "fit" who are surrendering/submitting, allowing God to work in them to will and to do of His good pleaure, in order to give the message, but they arent sealed yet. the message givers and receivers will be sealed at the same time.

or did i misunderstand you somewhere along the line?

actually this cancels out my understanding above.
When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received "the latter rain," "the refreshing from the presence of the Lord," and they are prepared for the trying hour before them (and the living testimony had been revived-sg). Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. (An angel returned from the earth with a writer's ink-horn by his side, and reported to Jesus that his work was done, that the saints were numbered and sealed. [SEE APPENDIX, NOTE 9.] Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. {1SG 197.2}) Then Jesus ceases his intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, "It is done;" and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven," is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. {GC 613.2}

according to this we dont receive the latter rain until the time of trouble. it is needed to get us through the time of trouble.

it looks like we need to restudy what we thought we knew before.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: teresaq] #115750
07/10/09 05:38 AM
07/10/09 05:38 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
[Rev.18:1-2]

QUOTE FROM Great Controversy

"The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third
angel's message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold. The Advent movement of 1840-44 was a glorious manifestation of the power of God; the first angel's message was carried to every missionary station in the world, and in some countries there was the greatest religious interest which has been witnessed in any land since the Reformation of the sixteenth century; but these are to be far exceeded by the mighty movement under the last warning of the third angel. {GC88 610.3}
The work will be similar to that of the day of Pentecost. As the "former rain" was given, in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the opening of the gospel, to cause the upspringing of the precious seed, so the "latter rain" will be given at its close, for the ripening of the harvest. "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord; his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." [HOSEA 6:3.]
"Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God; for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain." [JOEL 2:23.]
"In the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh." "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." [ACTS 2:17, 21.]

The great work of the gospel is not to close with less manifestation of the power of God than marked its opening. The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel, are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. Here are "the times of refreshing" to which the apostle Peter looked forward when he said, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out [in the investigative Judgment], when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus." [ACTS 3:19, 20.]

{GC88 611.1}
Servants of God, with their faces lighted up and shining with holy consecration, will hasten from place to place to proclaim the message from Heaven. By thousands of voices, all over the earth, the warning will be given. Miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and signs and wonders will follow the believers. Satan also works with lying wonders, even bringing down fire from heaven in the sight of men. [REV. 13:13.] Thus the inhabitants of the earth will be brought to take their stand. {GC88 612.1}

Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: dedication] #115751
07/10/09 05:55 AM
07/10/09 05:55 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,706
Canada
So I would say the latter rain is both --

Yes, it is to prepare God's people to stand through the time of trouble
AND
To give a last mighty call just before the close of probation.

Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: dedication] #115755
07/10/09 12:51 PM
07/10/09 12:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Can anyone be judged, numbered, and sealed one of the 144,000 before the outpouring of the LR and translated alive when Jesus arrives?

Re: Judgment of the Living - ongoing since mid-1800's [Re: Mountain Man] #115849
07/11/09 02:19 PM
07/11/09 02:19 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Hmm, your assuming the stance that the 144000 are a different group from the great number whom could not be counted?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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