Thinking that one is sanctified is the great mistake.
But it seems to me it's yours and MM's view which says that internal temptations are not bad (it's not a sin to be inwardly tempted).

just as i see what seems to be some serious ditch digging with the feet elsewhere on this board , i would suggest that another view is not being given serious consideration but the battle arms are being immediately set up. that may be true on both sides.

It's not necessarily bad would be a more accurate way of putting it. If the source comes from sinful flesh, that's not bad, and Christ, having the same flesh we have, experienced these same temptations.

No doubt, MM is the arbiter as to what he meant, but given he said this:



it seems pretty clear to me that he said that in Christ, believers are doing the "reinterpreting."

Actually, I meant to say that sinful flesh intercepts and perverts the innocent and legitimate needs produced by our body and we become aware of them as unholy conscious thoughts and feelings. In this case the words "body" and "flesh" are different aspects of human nature. In Christ, we are able to recognize and resist these unholy clamorings. But more than this we are also empowered to reinterpret them and satisfy them in healthy, wholesome ways unto the honor and glory of God. I believe Jesus experienced this, too.

Regarding the inherited sinful traits and tendencies we cultivate and turn into character, yes, I believe they can be completely crucified, totally taken away. And, like you, I believe latent aspects remain that make it necessary for us to fight the good fight of faith daily, moment by moment, to "keep them under" the control of a sanctified will and mind. We will continually be tempted from within to be unlike Jesus. This dark and dismal state will persist until the day Jesus returns and rewards us with a sinless body and flesh.

Nevertheless, possessing sinful flesh and being tempted from within to be unlike Jesus is a not a sin for which God counts us guilty and condemned. The unholy clamorings that wage within us and against us are merely temptations and it is not a sin to be tempted. Therefore, Jesus could be tempted from within for the same reasons we are without incurring guilt or condemnation or corruption. The same thing is true of believers who will stand before God in sinful flesh after probation closes, after Jesus ceases mediating in the most holy place on their behalf.

Do you see what I mean?

Please explain this idea more fully. Why is it a great mistake to believe we, while abiding in Jesus, are sanctified. Thank you.


Oh, it's definitely bad, that is, that we are born with sinful flesh and are tempted every minute of every day to be unlike Jesus. But, as you say, it's not a sin to be tempted. Yes, the fact we are tempted from within to be unlike Jesus is the result of the fall of A&E, but it is not a sin to be tempted from within. Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, that's an inherent problem with sharing opposing views online or in person. It's difficult to acknowledge or appreciate the other person's view without sounding like you are in agreement or abandoning the view you hold near and dear. Do you know of a Christlike way to grasp what the other person is saying without sounding like you agree with them or without sounding like you are condemning them for believing the way they do?

For example, let's consider Sabbath-keeping. If my neighbor is convinced Christians are required to imitate Jesus' example by keeping the Sunday day holy, how should I affirm that I understand his point of view without sounding like I agree with it, and without sounding like I am condemning him for believing it?

has the other sides position ever been studied and considered?

like, i believe that there are places in the scriptures that make it very clear that God Personally intervenes at times to stop what is going on. and i had come to an understanding that made a lot of sense to me as to why He did that.

but that hasnt stopped me from considering that God may not directly zap people, that there may be another legitimate, and perhaps more accurate point of view of what happens.

unless we think everything is "life and death" like sabbath vs sunday.

Teresaq, yes, I have given a lot of time and attention to trying to understand Rosangela's view of the human nature in general, and especially as it relates the human nature of Jesus. At this point, I'm still trying figure how her view accounts for all the different ways people are tempted. As I said above, "Blaming it on the evil angels does not account for all the temptations that come to mind." Do you see what I mean?

BTW, I believe this point of truth is a life and death situation, and getting it right is vitally important. Ellen White wrote this about it:

Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was. {DA 664.4}

We need not place the obedience of Christ by itself as something for which He was particularly adapted, by His particular divine nature, for He stood before God as man's representative and tempted as man's substitute and surety. If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and He could do this only in the way that He came--a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man. . . . {3SM 139.3}

Bear in mind that Christ's overcoming and obedience is that of a true human being. In our conclusions, we make many mistakes because of our erroneous views of the human nature of our Lord. When we give to His human nature a power that it is not possible for man to have in his conflicts with Satan, we destroy the completeness of His humanity. His imputed grace and power He gives to all who receive Him by faith. The obedience of Christ to His Father was the same obedience that is required of man. {3SM 139.4}

hmmmm, i dont think my point is being understood. oh well, never mind. i hurt too bad right now to try and get my point across.