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Re: I have some questions [Re: kland] #115873
07/12/09 08:00 AM
07/12/09 08:00 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.
...
If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.

I'm sorry.

That is so sad.




I think we've found the motive.
Sad.
frown

Therefore, no further point in discussing "kuriake hemera"...


Therefore, only God, knew a man's heart, his motives, his reasons and his willings.

In fact God did a miracle on that very day, on his Sabbath day while I am working and could not leave the site for the church.

See details in my answer to MM.

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115874
07/12/09 08:09 AM
07/12/09 08:09 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
It has been along time since the last miracle God has done for me in answer to my pray.

Besides his daily miracle in changing my mind and heart and behavior through his Spirit, I remember others such as casting out demons, holding 2 huricanes that is going to meet and became a very big huricane, till my vessel (i was an officer on cargo vessel at that time) passed the meeting point, He hold it for 5 days, and when we passed, the huricane moves and closing and met at the exact position where 3 days ago my vsl was there.

I know that more miracles would be done in the future, I need it, and others to whom I witnessed.

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115876
07/12/09 12:36 PM
07/12/09 12:36 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
If we aren't willing to lose our jobs now, would we be willing to lose our lives in order to obey God, in case this is required of us?

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115886
07/12/09 05:41 PM
07/12/09 05:41 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno

Good point! But, in any case, if even we had prayed, but the answer is not as what we want, and Sabbath comes in between, what is your choice?? To stay and die or to save your life?

I asked this because, some times it happens when I must work on Sabbath, eventhough I had prayed that my work would not fall on Sabbath day. I could not leave my job, because it is an all important job and everybody is looking for me. In fact, the job could not started or running without my presents. So, i have a responsibility, obligation to people of some institutions gathering together at the location, people who are engaged in this job, everybody with their own job and responsibility.

I think, my case could be compared with those who must flight but Sabbath comes in between. What is my choice? I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.

And the reality I did so far, I do my job! Is God happy with this? If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.

In His love
my brother, talks cheap and im not in your position. but i do know that i would be reasoning much as you do. stepping out in faith is extremely hard to do if we havent been doing it all along.

i would point out that that is the problem as i read this. a lack of faith and trust.

if those people are depending on you and you obeyed God over man by giving your resignation with the reasons why, who is to say but that God could work on hearts to where they keep you and with the sabbath off?

on the other hand you may lose your job for a very long time and have to live utterly dependent on God.

i have been put in that circumstance, and still am in it. it has been about 10 years now and it has taken that long for me to learn faith and trust and utter surrender/submission. it hasnt been easy but God was with me every step of the way, and He always, always, provided.

i think it was the only way to learn and im not sorry, but grateful. i would do it again.

remember that Jesus suffered the ultimate in abuse and suffering out of His love for you because He wants you to experience the glories of heaven for eternity.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Rosangela] #115900
07/13/09 02:19 AM
07/13/09 02:19 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
If we aren't willing to lose our jobs now, would we be willing to lose our lives in order to obey God, in case this is required of us?


Therefore, my question is: what will do, even we had prayed but our flight falls on the Sabbath day?? Will we honor Sabbath and die, or will we take the flight?

Jesus said, pray for your flight would not fall on Sabbath, but if it happens? What then? Take the flight or stay??

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: teresaq] #115901
07/13/09 02:35 AM
07/13/09 02:35 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: teresaq
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno

Good point! But, in any case, if even we had prayed, but the answer is not as what we want, and Sabbath comes in between, what is your choice?? To stay and die or to save your life?

I asked this because, some times it happens when I must work on Sabbath, eventhough I had prayed that my work would not fall on Sabbath day. I could not leave my job, because it is an all important job and everybody is looking for me. In fact, the job could not started or running without my presents. So, i have a responsibility, obligation to people of some institutions gathering together at the location, people who are engaged in this job, everybody with their own job and responsibility.

I think, my case could be compared with those who must flight but Sabbath comes in between. What is my choice? I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.

And the reality I did so far, I do my job! Is God happy with this? If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.

In His love
my brother, talks cheap and im not in your position. but i do know that i would be reasoning much as you do. stepping out in faith is extremely hard to do if we havent been doing it all along.

i would point out that that is the problem as i read this. a lack of faith and trust.

if those people are depending on you and you obeyed God over man by giving your resignation with the reasons why, who is to say but that God could work on hearts to where they keep you and with the sabbath off?

on the other hand you may lose your job for a very long time and have to live utterly dependent on God.

i have been put in that circumstance, and still am in it. it has been about 10 years now and it has taken that long for me to learn faith and trust and utter surrender/submission. it hasnt been easy but God was with me every step of the way, and He always, always, provided.

i think it was the only way to learn and im not sorry, but grateful. i would do it again.

remember that Jesus suffered the ultimate in abuse and suffering out of His love for you because He wants you to experience the glories of heaven for eternity.


There are some members in my church who could not leave their job on Sabbath day, or at least they continue with their work after they pray when entering the Sabbath. And many others in all other churches.

This problem is what SDA's face, is not easy to find a job.

On my case, it just happens once in a time.

How could I say on Friday evening, OK, come back Sunday morning guys, now is my Sabbath day, to expatriats that came all the way from Europe to supervise the job?? How can i stop a job that is running with many people from some institutions that cares nothing about Sabbath? Without my presence, the job could not go further, but the cost still running. Who would be blamed for this? Me! in Their eyes, I deny my responsibility and obligation to my job, to our job. Is that good? No, it is bad even for a son of God.

Therefore, God did miracles even it is a work done on Sabbath. In answer to a pray of faithfulness and surrender.

God did understand this kind of situation, and would cooperate, for he is a loving God.

I believe that!

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115907
07/13/09 12:03 PM
07/13/09 12:03 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Therefore, only God, knew a man's heart, his motives, his reasons and his willings.

Not only does God know a man's heart, but also the man.

Do I need to quote you again:
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.
...
If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.

Is it not obvious that you have clearly told all of us your motive for twisting scripture? Is it not obvious you have clearly told all of us your reason for distracting us from what you have done?

Quote:
In fact God did a miracle on that very day, on his Sabbath day while I am working and could not leave the site for the church.

Whether God, or the Devil does a miracle on the Sabbath day, does that mean you should continue to dishonor it?

Again, I am sorry you have chosen to honor man rather than God.
Quote:
Without my presence, the job could not go further, but the cost still running. Who would be blamed for this? Me!
or to honor self.
With a touch of vanity thrown in.

Re: I have some questions [Re: kland] #115908
07/13/09 12:13 PM
07/13/09 12:13 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think the comment regarding the Sabbath was just an indication that it would be better to not have to flee on the Sabbath. I don't think Jesus was implying there's anything wrong with fleeing for your life on the Sabbath.

I think an important principle of the Sabbath is often overlooked, which is that as tithing is a way for us to say, "All of my money is yours, O Lord, I am but a steward of it" so is the Sabbath a way of saying, "All of my time is yours, O Lord, I am but a steward of it."

However, having said that, I wouldn't want to in the least my any judgments about you or your situation. I don't know all the details, nor how God is guiding you or how the Holy Spirit is leading you. Christ is our only model. I would point to Him, asking Him for grace and wisdom. If you ask the Lord for bread, He won't give you a stone.

I pray you will listen to Him, and that you may find grace and peace.


Tom


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: vastergotland] #115910
07/13/09 01:38 PM
07/13/09 01:38 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: västergötland
Good question. At some point they must have done so, for the simple reason that the Sabbath day was abandoned.

Yeah, too bad. But apparently a few preserved Sabbath-keeping in spite of papal persecution.

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115911
07/13/09 01:48 PM
07/13/09 01:48 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, are you considering refusing to imitate Jesus' example of Sabbath-keeping and conducting business on the His holy day? Can you expect God to bless your business against His will?

I don't refuse to imitate Jesus, but I could not abandon my responsibility and obligation to my job while many people were connected to it and could not go further without my presence.

In fact, God did a miracle at that day (Sabbath morning, while I was working at the site of job), which became my witness on Wednesday evening pray in the church.

The miracle happened after I had tried and did all posible way to overcome an obstacle that could become very dangerous and could ruin the whole preparation job that have been taken by my team and had cost a lot, but at the end, I gave up. I just pray to God, my Almighty God that loved me, please put this obstacle away and let the whole operation be running well, smooth, safe and all in order.

And what happened when the operation started!! Nothing happens, the obstacle had been removed, all was going fine and well and safe until we completed the whole operation.

I knew that I have a good God that loved me, an Almighty God that nothing is impossible for Him, even I did this job on his Sabbath day, but he knew better my situation, my reason then any other human being. His blessing for my job and the miracle that he has done, even though it was Sabbath day, gave me the assurance what a wondeful and lovely God, I had,... better we had.

It sounds like there was a safety issue, that if you were absent from the job innocent people could have been seriously injured. Or, did I misunderstand the situation?

If there was a safety concern, and people could have been injured without you being there, then I can see why God blessed in overcoming the obstacle.

However, if safety wasn't an immediate and unavoidable concern, then I cannot say with certainty that it was God who blessed your labors on the Sabbath day.

Please fill in the details. What exactly was the safety concern, the obstacle that required your presence to work on the Sabbath?

Are you sure you aren't justifying working unnecessarily on the Sabbath? Please feel free to be forthcoming. This is a great place and time to analyze the situation for future reference.

Also, have you considered the possibility that Jesus has another job waiting for you and that He's waiting for you to refuse to work on the Sabbath so that you are forced to quit and seek employment elsewhere?

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