who asks this? not saying no one does, it just seems that those who try to trick me into saying sabbath keeping is legalism would have tried that on me by now.

most people i know are non-sda, many of them church-goers of other denominations.

then what is His "strange act"? since He has been killing and destroying all along, what exactly is that "strange act" of His?

glad to hear it. there are very many who, for various reasons, get quite upset that God wont torture and torment the lost for eternity. they need the lost to be hurt and badly.

i have no idea how it will play out, but i suspect, as my picture keeps changing from that angry, vengeful God, that it will be completely shattered on that horrible day.

i also find myself looking for more and more ways i can serve Him, not so i can go to heaven, or so i can avoid being "punished" and "roasted" but because He is so good!! i want to be like that.

Actually, Arnold was talking God not the papacy. He wrote:

1) God sometimes allows painful things to happen, if that will be eternally beneficial.

2) God sometimes causes painful things to happen, if that will be eternally beneficial.

For Tom to use words like "torture", "violence", and "force" in this context is unfair and, in my opinion, unkind.

Just the other day I was surfing at Bolsa Chica in CA and during sets this guy was aggressively trying to persuade me that Jesus changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. I thought it was kind of cool how passionate the guy was about it. He really loves the Lord a lot. Everybody calls him a "Jesus freak".

i take it you didnt consider this post to speak to the issue. #115865

we also have:
Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Jer 31:20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD.

esv: Hos 6:4 What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? Your love is like a morning cloud, like the dew that goes early away.
Hos 6:5 Therefore .. I have slain them by the words of my mouth, ...

Hos 11:8 How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.

Hos 4:17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

im praying to get to the point where if such a thing happened to my children, God forbid, my only thought would be to try to reach him that he would repent and turn his life around.

that is, after all, how God dealt with herod and manasseh, not to mention the billions of others, right?

and tom replied by referring to the papacy. you left out his statement.

i reprint it here: so the question is, was the papacy cruel and demonic in their goal to "save" people?

so he said that? you didnt mention it here.

what does it have to do with the plagues? we have gotten very derailed here.

I cannot do it justice in two or three words. In addition to the "withdraw and permit principle" of allowing death and destruction to happen I believe there are four other principles that have played out. I've listed these above. From these things I infer about God that He is not only a merciful God but He is also a God of justice. Ellen White wrote:

"The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. Who will say God will not do what He says He will do? {LDE 241.3}

Thank you for posting this quote. "The tears which Christ shed ... as ... He beheld the destruction of the world."