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Re: The Wrath of God #11615
12/07/04 04:57 AM
12/07/04 04:57 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
How do the statements quoted fit in with the following principles?

1) The principle of compelling force is not to be found in God's government.
2) The judgement is not an arbitrary act of power of God.
3) The wicked reap that which they have sown.
4) God is the fountain of life. The wicked die because they choose to separate themselves from God.
5) The wicked die because they are out of so harmony with God that God's presence to them is a consuming fire.
6) The glory of God destroys the wicked.

Re: The Wrath of God #11616
12/07/04 10:50 AM
12/07/04 10:50 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Actually, I find the serpent parallel quite apropos:

"What is sin? The transgression of God's law. God wants all connected with him to loathe sin, to hate anything that approaches to it. Transgression is a serpent with a deadly sting. Grant it no indulgence, for it will imperil the soul. Rather choose privation, suffering, hunger, reproach, imprisonment, and death, than the indulgence of sin." {RH, June 3, 1880 par. 10}

"The two thieves upon the cross represent the two great classes of mankind. All have felt the poison of sin, represented by the sting of the fiery serpent in the wilderness. Those who look upon and believe in Jesus Christ, as the thief looked upon him when lifted upon the cross, shall live forever; but those who refuse to look upon him and believe in him, as the hardened thief refused to look upon and believe in the crucified Redeemer, shall die without hope." {5Red 79.2}

Re: The Wrath of God #11617
12/07/04 10:59 AM
12/07/04 10:59 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
This is very plainly said:

""I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance," said John; "but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." Matt. 3:11, R. V., margin.
The prophet Isaiah had declared that the Lord would cleanse His people from their iniquities "by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning." The word of the Lord to Israel was, "I will turn My hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin." Isa. 4:4; 1:25. To sin, wherever found, "our God is a consuming fire." Heb. 12:29.
In all who submit to His power the Spirit of God will consume sin. But if men cling to sin, they become identified with it. Then the glory of God, which destroys sin, must destroy them. Jacob, after his night of wrestling with the Angel, exclaimed, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Gen. 32: 30.
Jacob had been guilty of a great sin in his conduct toward Esau; but he had repented. His transgression had been forgiven, and his sin purged; therefore he could endure the revelation of God's presence. But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed.
At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked."
{DA 107.4}

Granted this is the 1st and the second advent of the Lord; any reason to think that His glory magically changes to something else on the 3rd?

Does He say, "I change not!"

Re: The Wrath of God #11618
12/07/04 02:58 PM
12/07/04 02:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
What causes your death, the snake venom, or refusing to take the anti-venom?
If God does not choose to miraculously override the natural consequences of a lethal injection, then death is most likely imminent. But God, not death, is in control of whether or not we die, even if we do take the anti-venom. He is the life giver, therefore, He is also the life taker. God decides when we live and die.

Psalm
104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Re: The Wrath of God #11619
12/08/04 03:04 AM
12/08/04 03:04 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Ikan, do you agree with Tom and Kevin that the lake of fire is symbolic of the exceeding brigthness of God's glory, and not real fire and brimstone?

Re: The Wrath of God #11620
12/07/04 08:42 PM
12/07/04 08:42 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
God has given us the ability to decide our own destinies. We decide if we live or die. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." If we believe in Christ, we will live.

Re: The Wrath of God #11621
12/07/04 10:14 PM
12/07/04 10:14 PM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Mike: I find your desire to see if I am aligned with someone, before any comment is made about my posts, well...divisive and an awkward light shown on you.
Wouldn't a response before I was "assigned " a camp be more....uncolored?

Re: The Wrath of God #11622
12/08/04 04:08 AM
12/08/04 04:08 AM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
The lake of fire at the 3rd coming is no more "symbolic" than the Noachian flood was symbolic.
"'Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.' 'The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter.' 'Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.' Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass -- a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men -- 'the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.' Isaiah 34:8."
{GC 672.2}
This is more than just God's presence and His glory being manifested. This is the very bowels of the earth bringing forth its molten lava; reminiscent of how the deep was broken up in Noah's time, and water erupted up from out of the earth as the rain also poured down from the skies. {see PP 99.1}

Is anyone going to argue that the Flood wasn't a direct act on the part of God? Or that His glory consisted of water at that time?

Re: The Wrath of God #11623
12/08/04 04:59 AM
12/08/04 04:59 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Ikan, what do you believe? What do you think the quotes you posted mean? Do they teach a literal fire or a symbolic fire? Is the lake of fire real fire or the glory of God? or both?

John, thanx for the quote. When she quotes the Bible like that, and describes it like that, it's hard to believe the lake of fire is anything other than real fire.

Re: The Wrath of God #11624
12/08/04 09:20 AM
12/08/04 09:20 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
I think Sister White's quotes mean exactly what they say.
Again, Mike, you have failed to respond to my post and only asked for my opinion. Why you do that? Haven't your read them? Can't you conclude from sacred writings what it means without my comments on it? I am not being smart, just bummed that you rarely seem to answer my posts directly.

I want to study with people, not flaunt my opinions, which frankly carry no weight with eternity anyway. I'm not Matthew Henry, thank God, and am only sharing research, not arming for debates.

Page 11 of 18 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 17 18

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