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Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: vastergotland] #116155
07/17/09 01:50 PM
07/17/09 01:50 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
1. The "her" in "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues", (Rev 18:4) must necessarily refer to the "mother and her harlots" (RCC and certain protestant churches), whose sins will result in them receiving the plagues. Ellen WHite wrote:

Quote:
Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her [RCC] doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}

Many of the Protestant churches are following Rome's example of iniquitous connection with "the kings of the earth"--the state churches, by their relation to secular governments; and other denominations, by seeking the favor of the world. And the term "Babylon"--confusion--may be appropriately applied to these bodies, all professing to derive their doctrines from the Bible, yet divided into almost innumerable sects, with widely conflicting creeds and theories. {GC 383.1}

2. Do you have a particular church in mind whose fundamental beliefs are in harmony with everything the first century disciples and apostles held to be near and dear and worth dying for? Again, Ellen White wrote:

Quote:
Dear Brethren of the General Conference:

I testify to my brethren and sisters that the church of Christ, enfeebled and defective as it may be, is the only object on earth on which He bestows His supreme regard. While He extends to all the world His invitation to come to Him and be saved, He commissions His angels to render divine help to every soul that cometh to Him in repentance and contrition, and He comes personally by His Holy Spirit into the midst of His church. {TM 15.1}

Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard. The world is a workshop in which, through the cooperation of human and divine agencies, Jesus is making experiments by His grace and divine mercy upon human hearts. {TM 49.1}

My brother, I learn that you are taking the position that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, and that all that would be saved must come out of her. You are not the only man the devil has deceived in this matter. For the last forty years, one man after another has arisen, claiming that the Lord has sent him with the same message; but let me tell you, as I have told them, that this message you are proclaiming is one of the satanic delusions designed to create confusion among the churches. {TM 58.4}

Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Mountain Man] #116376
07/20/09 12:34 PM
07/20/09 12:34 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Based in particular on the last EGW quote in the previous post, I would say the Early Believers would feel more at home in the SDA Church, though "enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled", than in any other church.

IMO, those who are now shying away from the SDA Church on acccount of the "enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled" aspect of our church are treading on dangerous ground.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Daryl] #116377
07/20/09 12:40 PM
07/20/09 12:40 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Very true. This is no time to be leaving the SDA church and looking elsewhere to worship with like minded believers.

Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Mountain Man] #116379
07/20/09 12:48 PM
07/20/09 12:48 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Salvation through church membership thus...


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: vastergotland] #116401
07/20/09 06:16 PM
07/20/09 06:16 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Not salvation through church membership, but church membership through salvation.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Daryl] #116415
07/20/09 11:05 PM
07/20/09 11:05 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Have anyone read how the early believers lived? Have anyone ever been to a christian commune? That's how they lived.

Besides that our Church is far from living together in a community, there's many other issues that the early Church would not feel comfortable with our Church or any other denominations of today. If the early Church would be here today, they would live more like the Menonites. They live together in a community, they work together, they help each other daily, they go to church together which is nearby everyone's house, they set up their own rule or doctrines in their own Church and they evangelise(the men mainly and the community near me, they try to reform this as it was a weakness in the pass) together.

Besides that the woman are in submission, they stay at home and are housewives. The kids do not mingle with the world schools, no TVs and they minimize any worldly corruption.

Have you ever notice that we have become quite worldly and there's really no difference between us and the world?

I think if we only look at the lifestyle, they wouldn't feel comfortable with our Church at all. Now doctrines is another subject and quite an issue. Also the hierachal structure of our Church is very problematic and is another major issue making mass control very easy (eg. read the spiritual formation topic).

Originally Posted By: Bible
And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (Acts 2:44, KJV)
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (Acts 2:45, KJV)
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (Acts 2:46, KJV)
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47, KJV)



Blessings
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Elle] #116420
07/21/09 01:52 AM
07/21/09 01:52 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
you made some very good points
but there is no biblical, nor historical evidence, that the believers sold their homes and moved into communal living.

the essenes did, but that is quite apart from the believers.

they did sell and distribute their extra

Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

communal living, like monastic living, is very much discouraged. people need to be witnesses to their neighbors.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: Daryl] #116430
07/21/09 08:34 AM
07/21/09 08:34 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Not salvation through church membership, but church membership through salvation.
In my view a utopia, which like every utopia since the fall has one great defect. It only exist in a dreamworld.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: teresaq] #116431
07/21/09 08:35 AM
07/21/09 08:35 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Remembering to stay in the world while not being of it..


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: What Denomination Do You Think The Early Believers Would Feel Most At Home In? [Re: vastergotland] #116458
07/21/09 04:03 PM
07/21/09 04:03 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
precisely, but so easy to become laodicea, but communal living only gives a false impression of holiness. no safety in this world but Christ.

Last edited by teresaq; 07/21/09 04:04 PM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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