Arnold and Tom, Everything you are talking about is very interesting and important, however, it is off topic.

I was hoping that it was just a side discussion, however, after 3 pages, is it possible to conclude or bring this in the other threads that's already covering this?

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I was summarizing what I myself wrote. I was thinking a summary that bore reasonableness to my intent would be a good thing to strive for ("bore reasonableness" has an interesting ring to it).



If Jesus did not experience #2, then how could it be said that He endured every trial we have to endure?



I don't understand why this would be a problem for Jesus. Could you explain this? I mean, given your presuppositions, why would this be in the least bit difficult for Him?



What I've said is that Christ took our fallen nature to endure every trial that we are subject to. Why are you asking me if something is apparent that I've not claimed? And you ask "Can you see that yet"? That's clever. "Yet". As if this has been going on for awhile.



I don't understand why you're asking this question. Could you quote something by Jones or Fifield or Prescott or Waggoner to which this would pertain?



Same question. What's your logic here? If Christ didn't have a defective character, then He couldn't have taken our fallen nature?

i read the above more inline with the following and many more such statements.


the concentration seems to be only on temptations and ignoring what, to me, the messenger of the Lord seems to be concentrating on in the da. Christ was born in poverty as many are. He suffered hunger as many do. He endured heat and cold as many do, and on and on. He was perfectly human in that regard, and can understand why we would want relief.

Arnold, Tom, and Teresa, You guys are off topic. There's two threads regarding Jesus human nature, here we are talking about his divine nature on earth.

Maybe, if Daryl thinks its appropriate, could move these 4 pages to another thread.

sorry, elle. we certainly arent discussing what you intended for this thread, are we?

In response to #112366:

Here's the DA 24 quote:



From this we see:

1.Christ came to give us an example of obedience.
2.To do so, He took our nature, as per Heb. 2:17.
3.If we have to bear *anything* which Christ did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us.
4.Therefore Jesus was "in all points tempted like as we are."
5.He endured *every* trial to which we are subject.

Now unless being poor, or hungry, or tired are the only trials we are subject too, this can't be all that Christ endured. She said "If we have to bear *anything* which Christ did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us, and then she said again, "He endured *every* trial to which we are subject." DA 483 is an example of some trials Christ endured, but there's no reason to limit the "every trial" of DA 24 to only that.

Since Christ endured "every trial" we have to endure, to limit Christ's trials to poverty, fatigue and hunger is to limit our trials to these same things.

In addition, the SOP tells us our greatest trials, or temptations, come from within. So how can one say that Christ endured *every* trial we have to endure if He didn't even endure the one temptation which is most difficult for us?

Sounds good.

Is there a "bad mod" icon? The one participating here has been *causing* the problem.

Since I don't have time right now for much more than drive-by postings, I'll let Daryl put on the admin hat, if he'll be gracious enough to straighten out our mess.

But just so we're clear, Tom started it.....

i see trials and temptations as two different things. trials are what we go through and temptations are what we are tempted to do because of those trials. like since the accident my back hurts a lot so im tempted to not do much. back hurts=trial. want to not do much=temptation.

when we go through trials we are tempted to do certain things because of those trials. that is how i understood the messenger of the Lords statements. Jesus suffered the same general trials many go through. poverty, hunger, etc. we are tempted to murmur, etc because of those trials. Jesus wasnt exempt from the trials. but instead of murmuring or complaining He went around relieving others misery.



i understand the logic employed here but she applied this specifically to us so i cant, in all conscience, apply it to Jesus and say, "so His temptations came from within." you can and do. i cant. period.

As this seems to be where the most recent "Jesus' nature" topic landed, I will here post this quote I just found which might help to settle the issue.

(All emphases original)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.