Mike: Oops! I think you don't actually mean "culpable", do you?

Culpable according to Webster is:
"deserving blame; blameworthy; punishable, blamable; guilty"

I doubt if your really want to blame God for sin, do you, Mike?

Doug: God assumes responsibility for eliminating sin, Jesus being the active agent for that wonderful Act. By His letting our sins kill Him on the Cross, THAT is how he takes our place, not by appeasing a bloodthirsty Father-Jupiter
demigod, eager for revenge. That's Satan's picture of it that he has palmed off so cleverly on the worldly churches.
Satan cons men by saying: "The Father is cruel and demands a death when you sin. See: he wants you to kill animals and He'll even kill His own Son to make Himself look Powerful. He is asking you to keep a Law that I could not even keep, even when I was the highest created being. So you have no chance in making Him happy."

Yes, I agree; the Father always will take the blame on Himself,with no culpability, no guilt, no actual transgression of His own divine Law, as the loving father of any wayward child will take the blame on himself.
All child welfare agents know that a parent who refuses to take any blame, even if they themselves are clearly in total innocence, is not a fit parent.
They know that even though the parent is not culpable, their love for the child will create a willingness to take "the fall" to shield the child, even a trully unloveable child.

"The chastisment of our peace was upon Him.."Isa. 53:5


"Satan has kept up his system of cruelty, and still employs his planned agency of crookedness and deception, and accuses and condemns and tortures in order that he may control the conscience. While exercising his power in torturing those whom he controlled through demoniacal possession, he yet laid the blame of it upon the Lord God of heaven. He put his own interpretation on his Satanic actions, and charged God with being the author of all evil." {ST, December 4, 1893 par. 5}

Tom wrote:

quote:

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John, there is nothing in Christ's life that speaks of Him being cruel or arbitrary.

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Nobody here is implying that there is/was. But still He will punish sin in a violent manner. Not cruelly, nor arbitrarily, but nonetheless violently. The inspired testimony on this is so voluminous, it's beyond me how you fellows can miss it and teach otherwise.

Ikan wrote:

quote:

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So wrath is defined as evil angels coming in to fill the vacuum left by God's departure.

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Not in all cases, not even close. God does act Himself in violent ways from time to time; Inspiration is crystal clear on that in many places. How do you think the Flood happened, for instance? Both the Bible and Ellen White are very direct in stating that it was a direct action on the part of the Lord.

quote:

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God goes even further to tell us in unmistakeable language what it is that will destroy the wicked in the end. It is not Himself, but they who destroy themselves as the inevitable consequences of their choices:

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So, do you think the wicked themselves bring forth this worldwide lake of volcanic, molten fire? How, pray tell, do they do that?

quote:

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Punish sinners and then kill them again, after bringing them back to life?

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That's what Inspiration says, yes. I don't know why some of you guys have such a hard time with that, the statements are exceedingly plain.

Kevin: I'm afraid I find your theory on why some wicked suffer longer than others very speculative, and not at all supported by the Bible or the SOP.

Please take 10 minutes after prayer to read this; please try to avoid skimming. We all need to be more meticulous in our reading of each other's posts to avoid misunderstandings and hasty condemnations....Thanks!

(My apologies for the long posts; a study of this nature makes requires some space, or we will be whirling in our own quips and sound bytes, condemning without really knowing what each other is saying. This takes solid investigation, and a desire to know.Our pioneers appreciated this fact, and many here have exhibited the same type of earnestness over the years. That's why I prize MSDAOL so much.)

I think it more wise to "lay more cards on the table" before we approach separate events, such as the Flood, Jericho or the Lake of Fire. There are too many primary elements to understand before we get to the events.

Unquestionably God's infinite love was manifested in the aeons before the sin disaster intruded upon the unblemished happiness of the creatures throughout the universe, but the manifestation of that love is even more wonderfully revealed since sin's entry.
Yet, while no one who has any understanding of God's Word, would even consider that He punished or destroyed before the appearance of iniquity, the vast majority are strongly convinced that necessity has demanded such actions from God since the rebellion began.

There are at least two reasons for this thinking.

Firstly, the human mind has long been educated to believe that the only way to overcome rebellion is by force. Therefore, because man is conscious of no other way than this, and because he is aware that the Lord does have a problem which must be solved, man, unless especially enlightened by God's Word under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, cannot see that there can be any alternative but for the Lord to use force. But there is another way. Examinations will be made later, of incidents in Bible history to show that God's actions can be viewed in a different light altogether.

A second reason is that the mind has been trained to read Scripture references according to a certain method of interpretation. When read according to that system there are many Scriptures which will be understood as saying that God punishes, destroys and liquidates.

Consider the following examples.

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
"And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
"And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth Me that I have made them." Genesis 6:5-7.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die." Genesis 6:17.

"Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
"And He overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground." Genesis 19:24, 25

"And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the over-throw, when He overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt." Genesis 19:29.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." Exodus 4:21.

"And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. . . . And He hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said." Exodus 7:3, 13

"And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour." Exodus 32:27

"The Lord is regarded as cruel by many in requiring His people to make war with other nations. They say that it is contrary to His benevolent character. But He Who made the world, and formed man to dwell upon the earth, has unlimited control over all the works of His hands, and it is His right to do as He pleases, and what He pleases with the work of His hands. Man has no right to say to His Maker, Why doest Thou thus? There is no injustice in His character. He is the Ruler of the world, and a large portion of His subjects have rebelled against His authority, and have trampled upon His law. . . He has used His people as instruments of His wrath, to punish wicked nations, who have vexed them, and seduced them into idolatry." The SDA Bible Commentary, 1:1117.

"It was to be impressed upon Israel that in the conquest of Canaan they were not to fight for themselves, but simply as instruments to execute the will of God; not to seek for riches or self-exaltation, but the glory of Jehovah their king." Patriarchs and Prophets, 491

"Like the men before the flood, the Canaanites lived only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth. And both love and justice demanded the prompt execution of these rebels against God, and foes to man." ibid., 492

"And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." Joshua 10:11

"But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city." Matthew 22:7

A careful reading of the whole parable of which this last verse is a part, and the commentary on it in Christ's Object Lessons, 307-309, will show that the king is God, the armies were those of the Romans, the murderers were the Jews and the city was Jerusalem. The text was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Therefore the text is really saying, "And when God heard thereof, He was wroth: and God sent forth His armies, the Romans, and God destroyed the Jews, and God burned up Jerusalem."

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9.

This is by no means a comprehensive list of statements of this nature. There is no special point in assembling every such quotation here. However, these are more than sufficient to provide the examples needed to show that there are many such Scriptures, which when interpreted according to the way our minds have been accustomed to interpret them, leave one with no option but to believe that God does use force to liquidate those who have rebelled against Him.

These are many folk today who read these texts, interpret them according to long-accustomed methods, and are quite satisfied to believe that God does behave as an executioner to those who refuse to obey His laws.

But in doing so they have to ignore several things.

Firstly, there are quite a number of statements which say the opposite from what these statements are interpreted to mean.
Secondly, there are the great principles which are embodied in the constitution of God's government. Thirdly, there are the terrible implications of holding such beliefs about God.

These will be considered in turn as we proceed, but firstly let a list be made of what some would call counter-statements. In reality they are not and cannot be counter-statements for there is no such thing as a contradiction in God's Word.

Here are some examples of such statements:

"The Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works." "Thy testimonies [commandments or laws] that Thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful." Psalms 145:17; 119:138

The Lord is righteous and the law is righteous. Therefore God is what the law is. It is the "transcript of His own character," Christ's Object Lessons, 315, and that law declares "Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13. Therefore, if it is not in the law to kill, it is not in the character of God to kill.

So, "God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself." Christ's Object Lessons, 84.

"God destroys no one." Testimonies for the Church, 5:120.

"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejecters of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown, which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." The Great Controversy, 36.

"Satan is the destroyer. God cannot bless those who refuse to be faithful stewards. All He can do is to permit Satan to accomplish his destroying work. We see calamities of every kind and in every degree corning upon the earth, and why? The Lord's restraining power is not exercised. The world has disregarded the word of God. They live as though there were no God. Like the inhabitants of the Noachic world, they refuse to have any thought of God. Wickedness prevails to an alarming extent, and the earth is ripe for the harvest." Testimonies for the Church, 6:388, 389.

"This earth has almost reached the place where God will permit the destroyer to work his will upon it." Testimonies for the Church, 7:141.

"God keeps a reckoning with the nations. Not a sparrow falls to the ground without His notice. Those who work evil toward their fellow men, saying, 'How doth God know?' will one day be called upon to meet long-deferred vengeance. In this age a more than common contempt is shown to God. Men have reached a point in insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is indeed the living God. He will say to the angels, 'No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience; for the cup of their iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work." The Review and Herald, September 17, 1901.

When Jesus was asked to destroy the Samaritans who had rejected Him, He replied to His disciples, "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 9:55, 56.

"There can be no more conclusive evidence that we possess the spirit of Satan than the disposition to hurt and destroy those who do not appreciate our work, or who act contrary to our ideas." The Desire of Ages, 487.

"Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power." ibid., 759.

"The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority." ibid., 22.

We know that God does nothing that is contrary to the principles of His government. Therefore, He does not use force.

"Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer." The Ministry of Healing, 113.

Here is a compilation of statements, emphatic and clear, asserting that God is not an executioner, does not punish, and destroys no one. When these and the first set are viewed side by side, there appears no possibility of their being reconcilable. No attempt has been made to search out and copy every statement which exists for one side or the other. This is not necessary because any further quotations would only say that which is already quoted in these representative selections.

These apparent contradictions present the Bible student with a problem. For some, it is "solved" by simply discarding faith in the Word of God, charging it and its Author with duplicity and inconsistency. Others simply ignore the words which they are unable to understand or do not really desire to accept, while they carefully collect the opposite set, building their faith accordingly.

This was the course adopted by the Pharisees and Jews prior to and at the first advent. In the Old Testament there were many prophetic statements describing both the first and second coming of Christ. One set naturally spoke of His coming in obscurity, shame, ignominy, rejection and to final crucifixion. The other set described a coming in indescribable power, glory and triumph in which all His enemies would be totally annihilated. To the Jewish mind, especially as it lost the Spirit's illumination, it was impossible to reconcile these seeming contradictions. Their solution was to ignore every statement which spoke of humility and obscurity and to dwell heavily on those which spoke of power and glory. Thus Satan trained their minds to reject the Saviour when He came. So clever was he, that he used the Scriptures themselves to accomplish this. Once they had embarked on that wrong principle of interpretation, then, the more they studied their Bibles, the more conditioned they became to reject the Saviour when He appeared. He came exactly as the Scriptures said He would, but not as they had read the prophecies. Therefore, because He did not fulfil the set of prophecies they had gathered, they rejected Him and thus lost their eternal lives.

Friend Ikan, I'm afraid that your view of what Inspiration says here is incomplete, which leads to its being incorrect. Let's look at some other statements which show beyond any doubt whatsoever that God does indeed kill when it suits His purpose:

"Fire flashing from the cloud [of the Lord's presence] consumed the two hundred and fifty princes who had offered incense."
{PP 401.1} [Korah's rebellion]

"The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits."
{GC 614.2}

"God has often visited judgment upon the false swearer, and even while the oath was on his lips, the destroying angel has cut him down. This was to prove a terror to evildoers."
{1T 202.2}

"In mercy to the world, God blotted out its wicked inhabitants in Noah's time. In mercy He destroyed the corrupt dwellers in Sodom. . . It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace."
{GC 543.3}

"The judgment visited upon Ananias and Sapphira was to be a warning to the church through all time. The sin committed by these persons was similar to that of Achan, and the power of God searched them out and brought swift retribution upon them."
{ST 05-05-81 para. 15}

"Ananias and Sapphira wished to be regarded as giving all, and yet keep part. In order to do this, they falsified. Both of them agreed to practice deception, but they did it at the cost of their lives. God struck them both with death. "
{13MR 188.04} (1899)

"The same angel who had come from the royal courts to rescue Peter, had been the messenger of wrath and judgment to Herod. The angel smote Peter to arouse him from slumber; it was with a different stroke that he smote the wicked king, laying low his pride and bringing upon him the punishment of the Almighty. Herod died in great agony of mind and body, under the retributive judgment of God."
{AA 152.1}

Numbers
22:32 "And the angel of the Lord said unto him [Balaam], Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:
22:33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive."

(Did the angel of the Lord lie?)

2 Kings 19:35
"And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses."

(The "angel of the Lord" did this; not Satan or his angels.)

Now let's look at the Flood account.

"The world was in its infancy; yet iniquity had become so deep and widespread that God could no longer bear with it; and He said, 'I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth.' He declared that His Spirit should not always strive with the guilty race. If they did not cease to pollute with their sins the world and its rich treasures, He would blot them from His creation, and would destroy the things with which He had delighted to bless them; He would sweep away the beasts of the field, and the vegetation which furnished such an abundant supply of food, and would transform the fair earth into one vast scene of desolation and ruin...."
{PP 92.1}

Lest anyone try to argue that God merely allowed Satan to cause the Flood, there's this:

"Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence.....He now uttered imprecations against God, charging Him with injustice and cruelty."
{PP 99.3}

No, Satan didn't cause the Flood, it was the Almighty Himself. Both the Bible and SOP are crystal clear. Some might try to say that the Bible language has been misinterpreted due to the difference in ancient Hebrew idiom and our own; but that argument can't be used in the case of the SOP. Ellen White spoke and wrote modern-day English, and she was very clear that God does kill. Very clear.

You also said that God cannot kill because of the Sixth Commandment. But Inspiration says that Christ is "above all law...free from the claims of the law." 4T 120.3. So the argument that God can't kill because He'd be breaking His own commandment falls flat here. God can do whatever He wants. He doesn't kill unjustifiably, but kill He does when humans pass the limit of His forbearance.

The bare facts are that both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy declare again and again, in language that the simplest child can understand, that God does kill, and will punish sin by killing sinners in the lake of fire. He gains no pleasure from this (Ezekiel 18:32), but it will happen nonetheless. To deny this fact is to deny God's word, the plain statements of His messengers throughout the ages. Such a denial of the truth constitutes a dangerous delusion, since it misrepresents the very character of the Almighty.

.

John, regarding your comment to me, if you divorce the punishment from sin from sin itself, in terms of cause and effect, then you make the punishment both cruel and arbitrary.

Arbitrary means "based on individual discreation, as opposed to law." If sin does not bring death in and of itself, then its punishment is indeed arbitrary. Please consider what the word actually means.

Secondly cruel means, "lacking of showing kindness or compassion or mercy." Your view fits this description to a tea. If, on the other hand, sin actually is deadly, then the final destruction of the wicked is kind, compassionate and merciful. It's only if God is inflcting pain that it's cruel.

You have not dealt, nor has anyone, with the fact that force is not a principle of God's government and that the principles by which accomplishes the destruction of sin if by love and truth. Your view does not fit with this, as it relies on force.

Finally, it appears to me that you did not read Ikan's post. If you read it, you did not pay attention to his points, or at least did not consider them or deal with them.

He pointed out that there are two groups of statements, some of which appear to show God's punishment as being arbitrary, and others which appear to show that punish is the result of rejecting God. He pointed out that these apparent contradictions need to be reconciled, and that what some do is to completely ignore one class of statements and just keep the others, just like the Israelites around the time of Christ just laid hold of the Second Coming prophesies while ignoring the First Coming ones.

And this is exactly what you did. You have not dealt with any of the statements which bring out principles which are contrary to your view, nor have you even attempted to do so. All you have done is quote statements in an unthinking fashion, just like those who think that hell is eternal do by quoting Rev. 20:10, Mark 9 whatver, and Luke whatever on the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. They do not attempt to deal with the issues involve, nor consider the impacts of viewing God's character in such a negative manner. You are acting just like they do.

It's fine for you to have a diverging view. There's no problem with that. But produce an argument which is based on reason, which discusses the principles involved.

Why does evil exist in the world? How does God eliminate it? Who is responsible for sin and death? What are the principles of God's government? Does God follow these principles in the destruction of the wicked? Please consider the issues involved in your comments.

I am sorry to have to post another long one, as I am unsure if it will be read, but the evidences that I, and several others, are being so misunderstood compels me to become abit more all-inclusive in my answers.

Bro. John: I am happy to deal with several of your good points here. You know our friendship over the years has been based solely on deep discussions over doctrine. You know me fairly well, as far as many of my stands go.

Firstly, your quote "above all law...free from the claims of the law." 4T 120.3 is openly about the Hebrew ceremonial laws, rites, sacrifices, in particular to the red heifer who had never been yoked, and it's symbolism as related to Christ.
But also when you re-read it, you will perhaps see that this wonderful lesson from the SOP(also published under the title "The Sacrifice of Separation." in the January 9, 1883 edition of the Review and Herald.)is about how angels cannot atone for man as a sacrifice, because they are able to sin, break the law of right-doing (The other Law), as fallen angels manifest so horribly. They are under the "yoke of obligation"...the obligation to obey and live forever; disobey and not live forever.
Jesus was not under an "either or " yoke before He was born in Bethlehem, yet He volunteered to take it....for me. He took that risk.

The article, to me, has nothing to do with God's willingness to break His own Ten Commandments, that He expects us to keep.

If one could show me where God had to steal, lie, rob, manipulate or use other evil and forbid ways to prop up His Kingdom, than perhaps I could concede He would kill in the same manner as evil men do.


To my mind, the life and teachings of Christ are the final, comprehensive declaration of what God is and does. His manifestation of the Father is so bright, so clear, and so total, that, for me, nothing more is needed. Therefore, it is the standard by which every argument about the Father's character is tested. If the argument presented cannot find support in Jesus Christ, then, no matter how logical it may seem to be, or how convincing it may appear, I reject it entirely, even though I may have no explanation for it as yet. My faith grasps the reality of Christ's mission as the outshining of the Father's countenance. I believe that God sent His Son into the world for the express purpose of penetrating the mists of error and delusion which Satan had cast around His character of righteousness. The confirmation of that faith is expressed in the resolution to accept nothing about God except that which is in total agreement with the witness of the Father attested to by His Son.

Therefore, if anyone wishes to successfully convince me that God destroyed the sinner, offering as evidence the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, or any other punishments of the Old Testament era, then he must be able to bring proof that Christ, during His earthly mission, did the same thing. It is so impossible to do this that those who cling to the erroneous view that God does execute the sinner, claim that the revelation of God as given by Christ is only a partial manifestation of the Father which omits the sterner roles of judge and executioner.

Texts and statements quoted earlier expose this as fallacious thinking, for the manifestation of God as given by Christ was as complete as Christ, the superlative One, could make it. Nothing was overlooked or omitted.

No stand is taken here that there are two different revelations of God, the one given in Old Testament times versus that given by Christ. Not a single contradiction exists in the Word of God. There are no statements, rightly understood, which contradict the eternal principles of truth. On the contrary, when comprehended, they move from a position of apparent denial of the eternal verities, to one of mighty endorsement. Thus the true Bible student is not afraid of difficult statements. He may have to admit for the moment, that their true meaning eludes him, but he knows that it will not be for long, as the teaching Holy Spirit leads each trusting student along the glorious corridors of unfolding light.

Not every statement that can be presented has as yet been resolved. There remains one or two for which the correct understanding is still pending, but the Lord will make them clear in time. The fact that they cannot be explained just yet is no cause for fear or doubt. There is more than sufficient evidence in the great principles to establish beyond doubt, the truth of God's character.

But most have been unravelled and, for the help of those still struggling with some of them, an examination of the most commonly quoted will be undertaken. No attempt must be made to twist the statements to fit a desired conclusion. They must be examined to see exactly what they say and, just as importantly, what they do not say. All too often, the problem of interpretation lies in a tendency to assume that a statement infers something it does not. If this inference can be cleared away, the words will then be left free to say what they were intended to.

The Same Powers Problem that Bro. John brought up:

What I would rate as the most difficult is the one which reads:

"A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians, and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere." The Great Controversy, 614.

The portion of this statement causing the most difficulty is this, "The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits."
When a person does not have a clear grasp of the principles underlying God's character, it is easy to see how this statement could leave him with the conviction that holy angels destroy exactly as do evil angels. It would appear that the only difference is that holy angels destroy by God's command while the evil do it with His permission.

What happens is that everyone tends to read into this statement more than it actually says. Here is what the statement does not say:

"The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised in the same way by evil angels when He permits."

These four words, "in the same way," are not in the statement, neither are they inferred there. Furthermore, every principle of God's character forbids their being there. Yet, despite multiplied evidences to this effect, this is exactly what people read into the reference. They make no distinction between the work of God and of Satan and therefore between the character of each. This is serious.

There is a decided contrast between the role of the good angels and the evil ones. It is the heaven-appointed work of the righteous angels to hold back the four winds of strife for as long as possible. They only release them when God judges that any further remaining on station will impose their presence where it is not desired. There are many Scriptures which teach this.

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." Revelation 7:1.

"There is a work yet to be done, and then the angels will be bidden to let go, that the four winds may blow upon the earth." Testimonies for the Church, 5:152.

"We are today under divine forbearance; but how long will the angels of God continue to hold the winds, that they shall not blow?" Testimonies for the Church, 6:426.

"Angels are now restraining the winds of strife, that they may not blow until the world shall be warned of its coming doom; but a storm is gathering, ready to burst upon the earth; and when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there will be such a scene of strife as no pen can picture." Education 179,180.

"I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised His hands, and with a voice of deep pity cried, 'My blood, Father, My blood, My blood, My blood! ' Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice, 'Hold! Hold! Hold! Hold! until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads.'
"I asked my accompanying angel the meaning of what I heard, and what the four angels were about to do. He said to me that it was God that restrained the powers, and that He gave His angels charge over things on the earth; that the four angels had power from God to hold the four winds, and that they were about to let them go; but while their hands were loosening, and the four winds were about to blow, the merciful eye of Jesus gazed on the remnant that were not sealed, and He raised His hands to the Father and pleaded with Him that He had spilled His blood for them. Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels, and bid them hold, until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads." Early Writings, 38.

"God keeps a reckoning with the nations. Not a sparrow falls to the ground without His notice. Those who work evil toward their fellow men, saying, How doth God know? will one day be called upon to meet long- deferred vengeance. In this age a more than common contempt is shown to God. Men have reached a point in insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is indeed the living God. He will say to the angels, 'No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience; for the cup of their iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work.' " The Review and Herald, September 17, 1901.

"Satan is the destroyer. God cannot bless those who refuse to be faithful stewards. All He can do is to permit Satan to accomplish his destroying work. We see calamities of every kind and in every degree coming upon the earth, and why? The Lord's restraining power is not exercised. The world has disregarded the word of God. They live as though there were no God. Like the inhabitants of the Noachic world, they refuse to have any thought of God. Wickedness prevails to an alarming extent, and the earth is ripe for the harvest." Testimonies for the Church, 6:388, 389.

Every one of these statements confirms that the angels' role is to hold back those terrible powers which are only awaiting release to destroy the earth and the heavens. Angels are righteous. They have not instituted their ways in place of God's. Accordingly, they do only what the Lord would have them do. As surely as the God of heaven never destroys by direct action, neither do the angels. Therefore, the way in which they exercise those powers is by the withdrawal of their restraint upon them. The released energies pass from an inactive state into one of intense activity and consequently, of exercise.

This is the way in which the powers are brought into active exercise by holy angels when God commands, but it is not the way evil angels exercise them when God permits. Satan and his followers have studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature and the turbulent forces within man, until they know just how to activate them into destructive intensities. Thus, while God's angels are working to hold back these fearful elements, Satan and his company are working in the opposite direction.

But, whether they are released into active exercise by the holy angels, or manipulated by evil angels, they are the same powers. This is the principal thought that the statement is intended to convey. It does not discuss the way in which those powers are exercised. When it is recognized that this is the subject matter of the statement, there will be no problem in understanding it.

Far from proving that good angels, at God's command, sally forth and execute the unrighteous, this statement, by emphasizing that it is the same power in any case, verifies that they do not. If God undertook the work of executioner, He would not bother to use anything less than the greatest powers at His command. These certainly are not those in nature and in man. They are the almighty forces within Himself, forces so great that He merely has to speak and whole worlds appear and, in turn, disappear. Therefore, if God was the destroyer, it would not be the same powers as those used by the evil angels who have nothing of themselves but are dependent on what God has invested in nature and in man, to do their work of destruction. God does have almighty omnipotence and is not in any sense dependent on the relatively puny potentials He has given to this earth and its inhabitants. If these facts are kept in mind, then the statement presents no problem.