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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Rosangela] #118195
08/26/09 03:36 PM
08/26/09 03:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Inheriting traits and cultivating character are two entirely different realities. Traits are not character, and character is not traits. Character is cultivated. Traits are inherited.

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Mountain Man] #118199
08/26/09 03:53 PM
08/26/09 03:53 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The sum total of character traits, whether hereditary or cultivated, constitutes the character.

Characters are not formed in one mold. There is every phase of character received by children as an inheritance. The defects and the virtues in traits of character are thus revealed. Let every instructor take this into consideration. Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character, as also beauty of character, will have to be met, and much grace cultivated in the instructor to know how to deal with the erring for their present and eternal good. {FE 277.1}

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Rosangela] #118236
08/27/09 12:46 PM
08/27/09 12:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The traits we inherit but do not cultivate do not count against us in judgment. Only those inherited traits we ourselves cultivate count for character in judgment. Uncultivated traits are dormant and do not count against us in judgment. Do you agree?

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Mountain Man] #118251
08/27/09 04:30 PM
08/27/09 04:30 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Yes, but I believe they do not count against us because of Christ's sacrifice.

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Rosangela] #118263
08/27/09 06:59 PM
08/27/09 06:59 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I'm understanding this idea to be communicating that an infant has a character, because it inherits character traits, but these traits don't count against it, because of Jesus' sacrifice. This doesn't make sense to me.

What makes sense to me is an infant develops a character by means of the choices it makes as it grows and is able to make choices. Before that time, its fitness for heaven is dependent to a great degree on the influence of its parents. Otherwise all infants would go to heaven by virtue of Christ's sacrifice.

Regarding Christ, He took our sinful nature upon His sinless nature. His flesh was like ours. Like the rest of fallen humanity, He accepted the workings of the law of heredity. In sinful flesh, Christ developed a perfect character.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Tom] #118272
08/27/09 08:05 PM
08/27/09 08:05 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
God made Adam after His own character, pure and upright. There were no corrupt principles in the first Adam, no corrupt propensities or tendencies to evil. {AG 344.3}

The human race do not stand in the righteousness of character which Adam possessed at his creation. {ST, June 11, 1894 par. 11}

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

These quotes make clear that

1) A righteous character is a character without corrupt propensities or tendencies to evil

2) We are born with a character, otherwise it couldn't be said Adam was made after God's own character and that he had a righteous character at his creation; besides, it's said that God gave our first parents a pure and upright character and that, had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity.

Quote:
Otherwise all infants would go to heaven by virtue of Christ's sacrifice

Everybody who goes to heaven will go there by virtue of Christ's sacrifice. The faith of the parents guarantees that babies of Christian parents will be saved. As to the others, we don't know if all will be saved, because this also depends on the upbringing. Correct principles must be taught from birth.

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Rosangela] #118305
08/28/09 02:17 PM
08/28/09 02:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, A&E were also created as adults, with the ability to converse, reason, walk, run, procreate, etc. Infants are not born in the same state, not even close. The character God gave A&E when they were created is very much different than the character we give infants when they are conceived. And, yes, prenatal influences affect unborn infants, and as they react and respond to them they are developing character. It is in this sense that infants are born with character.

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Rosangela] #118307
08/28/09 02:26 PM
08/28/09 02:26 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
M: The traits we inherit but do not cultivate do not count against us in judgment. Only those inherited traits we ourselves cultivate count for character in judgment. Uncultivated traits are dormant and do not count against us in judgment. Do you agree?

R: Yes, but I believe they do not count against us because of Christ's sacrifice.

It is the character we ourselves develop, not what our parents developed, that will determine our eternal destiny in judgment. Traits are neutral. Whether we develop good or bad traits depends on our relationship to Jesus. Tendencies, however, are not neutral. We inherit tendencies that tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus. These tendencies, however, will not count against us in judgment. Again, it is what we ourselves do as we interact with them that will determine our eternal destiny in judgment. Just because they tempt us, it does not mean we are guilty or that we require the atoning blood of Jesus. It is not a sin to be tempted.

"The harvest of life is character, and it is this that determines destiny, both for this life and for the life to come. The harvest is a reproduction of the seed sown. Every seed yields fruit after its kind. So it is with the traits of character we cherish. Selfishness, self-love, self-esteem, self-indulgence, reproduce themselves; and the end is wretchedness and ruin. "He that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Galatians 6:8. Love, sympathy, and kindness yield fruitage of blessing, a harvest that is imperishable. {CG 162.4}

Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Mountain Man] #118314
08/28/09 03:49 PM
08/28/09 03:49 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
There were in him (unfallen Adam) no corrupt principles, no tendencies to evil. But when Christ came to meet the temptations of Satan, He bore "the likeness of sinful flesh." (BE 9/3/00)


It's true that there were no corrupt principles or tendencies to evil in Adam as He was created, but when Jesus came, He came in our flesh. There were no corrupt principles in Jesus Christ, but in His flesh, the same as any other human after Adam's fall. Christ accepted the law of heredity. Character is not formed by flesh, but developed by decisions we make through life.

Quote:
T:Otherwise all infants would go to heaven by virtue of Christ's sacrifice

R:Everybody who goes to heaven will go there by virtue of Christ's sacrifice.


Nobody goes to heaven by virtue of Christ's sacrifice irrespective of anything else, or everyone would go.

Quote:
The faith of the parents guarantees that babies of Christian parents will be saved.


It doesn't guarantee it. It makes it possible. Nowhere are told there is any such guarantee. That's a dangerous idea. The conclusion would be we could kill the infants of saved people to make sure their children go to heaven.

The faith of the parents has an influence on the child's ability to develop character. The parents of unbelievers aren't necessarily lost either.

Quote:
As to the others, we don't know if all will be saved, because this also depends on the upbringing. Correct principles must be taught from birth.


Exactly! The faith of the parents doesn't cover the children in some mystical way, but if they have faith, it's likely they will teach their children correct principles.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Tom] #118335
08/29/09 12:05 AM
08/29/09 12:05 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Exactly! The faith of the parents doesn't cover the children in some mystical way, but if they have faith, it's likely they will teach their children correct principles.

What do you mean by that? In case a 3-day-old child dies, will it go to heaven because of Christ's sacrifice or because it was taught correct principles?

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