M: Thomas, what do you find objectionable about the SDA view of the IJ of the living? Why are you unwilling to embrace it wholeheartedly?

V: Tell me what I am missing.

M: That the IJ has not yet progressed to include the living. According to the SDA view:

Solemn are the scenes connected with the closing work of the atonement. Momentous are the interests involved therein. The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon--none know how soon--it will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour's admonition: "Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." Mark 13:33. "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Revelation 3:3. {GC 490.1}

V: I am still not sure what you mean here Mike.

Mark:The first angel proclaims that the hour of His judgment is come. And men are to fear God in light of that fact.

So the issue, Tom, in the judgment, is whether men and women can live victoriously by the grace of God. Is the intercession of Christ for men in the heavenly sanctuary effective in this Day of Atonement? Can Christ present us faultless before His throne, not only in theory, but in fact? Will the church finally wear the wedding garment?

So, God is measuring us by the truth as it's found in Christ.

While the unfallen worlds look on, they are interested in seeing how men and women respond to the truth and the grace of God that is presented to us freely but at an infinite cost to the Deity.

Maybe I don't know what you are "missing". I got the impression you believe the IJL (investigative judgment of the living) has been going on since the Fall of A&E. Whereas the SDA view (according to the GC) says the IJ (which began with the dead in Christ in 1844) has not yet progressed to include the living. Do you agree with this view of the IJL?

MM:Maybe I don't know what you are "missing". I got the impression you believe the IJL (investigative judgment of the living) has been going on since the Fall of A&E. Whereas the SDA view (according to the GC) says the IJ (which began with the dead in Christ in 1844) has not yet progressed to include the living. Do you agree with this view of the IJL?

Soon--none know how soon--it will pass to the cases of the living.

It's absolutely certain the IJ has not passed to the living yet, even though more than a century has passed since it was written that "soon" this would be the case.

non-challenging, non-interrogatory. the other way sounds too much like, "youre in deep trouble if you dont answer this correctly".

The SDA view, as I understand it, is that we don't know if it's IJ has passed to the living or not. What I think may have happened is that it passed to the living around 1888 and then "slipped back" when the message to prepare the world for Christ's coming was rejected.

Several times during the past winter [1888-89.] I have met the report that, during the Conference at Minneapolis, "Sister White was shown that the judgment, which since 1844 had been passing upon the righteous dead, had now begun upon the living." This report is not true. {5T 692.1}

The same angel who visited Sodom is sounding the note of warning, "Escape for thy life." The bottles of God's wrath cannot be poured out to destroy the wicked and their works until all the people of God have been judged, and the cases of the living as well as the dead are decided. And even after the saints are sealed with the seal of the living God, His elect will have trials individually. Personal afflictions will come; but the furnace is closely watched by an eye that will not suffer the gold to be consumed. The indelible mark of God is upon them. God can plead that His own name is written there. The Lord has shut them in. Their destination is inscribed--"God, New Jerusalem." They are God's property, His possession. {TM 446.1}

What is the seal of the living God, which is placed in the foreheads of His people? It is a mark which angels, but not human eyes, can read; for the destroying angel must see this mark of redemption. {4BC 1161.4}

Those who would have the seal of God in their foreheads must keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. This is what distinguishes them from the disloyal, who have accepted a man-made institution in the place of the true Sabbath. The observance of God's rest day is the mark of distinction between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not. {7BC 970.2}

In the issue of the great contest two parties are developed, those who "worship the beast and his image," and receive his mark, and those who receive "the seal of the living God," who have the "Father's name written in their foreheads." This is not a visible mark. {7BC 980.4}

There can be only two classes. Each party is distinctly stamped, either with the seal of the living God, or with the mark of the beast or his image. {LDE 215.1}

Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand. {Mar 241.8}

While Satan was urging his accusations and seeking to destroy this company, holy angels, unseen, were passing to and fro, placing upon them the seal of the living God. These are they that stand upon Mount Zion with the Lamb, having the Father's name written in their foreheads. {SD 369.4}

The seal of the living God will be placed upon those only who bear a likeness to Christ in character. {CG 182.1}

Those who would have the seal of God in their foreheads must keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. {LDE 220.2}

The sign, or seal, of God is revealed in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath, the Lord's memorial of creation. . . . The mark of the beast is the opposite of this--the observance of the first day of the week. {LDE 224.3}

"Many are called, but few are chosen." Many hear the invitation of mercy, are tested and proved; but few are sealed with the seal of the living God. Few will humble themselves as a little child, that they may enter the kingdom of heaven. {5T 50.2}

[The MOB crisis] is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed. All who prove their loyalty to God by observing His law, and refusing to accept a spurious sabbath, will rank under the banner of the Lord God Jehovah, and will receive the seal of the living God. Those who yield the truth of heavenly origin, and accept the Sunday sabbath, will receive the mark of the beast. {Mar 164.3}

Those who receive the seal of the living God, and are protected in the time of trouble, must reflect the image of Jesus fully. {CET 112.2}

Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels, and bid them hold, until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads. {CET 102.2}

When Jesus leaves the sanctuary, then they who are holy and righteous, will be holy and righteous still; for all their sins will then be blotted out, and they will be sealed with the seal of the living God. {CET 105.1}

When this time of trouble comes, every case is decided; there is no longer probation, no longer mercy for the impenitent. The seal of the living God is upon His people. {CET 187.4}

Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. {FLB 287.7}

Just before we entered it [the time of trouble], we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion. {LDE 228.4}

When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received "the latter rain," "the refreshing from the presence of the Lord," and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, "It is done;" and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven," is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. {GC 613.2}

MM:The IJ cannot progress to include the living until sometime after the MOB is enforced.

M: The IJ cannot progress to include the living until sometime after the MOB is enforced.

T: Why not?

I don't see that any of the quotes you presented say this, or say anything at all in regards to the cases in the IJ passing to the living. However, you quoted so many things, I could have missed something. It would be easier to follow if you just quoted that which pertained to your point. Is there a quote you can present which says the IJ can only pass to the living after some certain thing occurs?

Contrary to what you posted above, Ellen White emphatically stated that the idea the IJ has progressed to include the living is “not true”.

MM, I don't see that you've addressed the issue. You are claiming that the "SDA view" is that the IJ could not have passed to the living. There's nothing official that says that, and this isn't the general idea that SDA's have, wouldn't you agree? At least, I have no knowledge of such, and have been an active SDA for a long time.

T: The SDA view, as I understand it, is that we don't know if it's IJ has passed to the living or not. What I think may have happened is that it passed to the living around 1888 and then "slipped back" when the message to prepare the world for Christ's coming was rejected.

M: Contrary to what you posted above, Ellen White emphatically stated that the idea the IJ has progressed to include the living is “not true”.

T: I didn't say that the IJ *had* progressed to include the living, but that I thought it "may have" happened. I'm not saying it did. I don't know. I'm not making the claim that it did. Please be more careful in reading things. Let's not jump to conclusions! (making people say things they're not saying)