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[ January 01, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

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[ January 01, 2005, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

I am reminded of this verse many times. It comes from Hebrews:

13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God is the same each and every day. His law of Love and His Commandments are still the same as they were even before this earth came to life.

Man is who changes things. I spent an hour and a half with my friend Carolyn who left the church a couple of weeks ago riding up to Fish Lake, NV. speaking about this very topic.

Jesus says in Matthew:

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

1 John:

3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The law did not go away, the power of sin over us changed because Jesus showed us the way as an example in how we can live.

In Revelation Jesus tells us that we can overcome:

3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

By submitting our will to Him we also can overcome and will sit with Him at His throne.

Jesus died for us. He took our sins upon himself and fulfilled the law for us. This we could not do, but the rest is up to us. What we do will determine if we will be saved or lost. Jesus cannot do this for us, He cannot force His will upon us. We must do it. We must walk in the light of life, which is Jesus Christ.

Liane, the Zoo Mama

Liane, the principles of the law are eternal, but the particulars are not necessarily so. Some aspects of the law did not come to light until after God created mankind, and still others not until after they sinned.

1 BC 1104
The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God (Ibid., March 14, 1878). {1BC 1104.5}

Doug.

Sorry, just want to make sure.

Do I believe that the law has done away with? Not exactly! The law still exist and in function, leading those who believe not unto Christ.

The question is: are we, Gentile’s believers under the law??? You may comment to this question as I have explained in my post to Mike Lowe.

In His love

James S

Mike.

I agree with you and yes, the law of God is written in the hearts of those Christ’ believers who live with faith in him and walk after the Spirit.

Those Gentile’s believers (non Jews) have the law of God written in their heart by the Spirit, their life expressed the unselfish love of God that fulfill the demands of the Ten Commandments, which no one could achieve through his obedience when the law is the focus.

God knowing this, would he put the Gentiles believers back under the law, just the same as it was once announce to the Jews: “Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments; which if a man do, he shall live in them; I am the Lord.” Leviticus 18:5? I think no! You may read Acts 15 (verse 8-11, 20,21, 28,29).

Thus, being under the law as the Jews is one thing, being not under the law is another thing.
Therefore, the question which is more important: What is God’s standard of judgment against the Gentile’s believers?
So, even you had enlighten me that Sabbath observation is beyond the cross and fulfilling the law is including Sabbath observation, but as you know, the law is not our focus. Christ is our focus, to be like him and the rest will follow accordingly as fruits of the Spirit.

But against the law of clean and unclean meat, I am still studying it, whether I am under it’s requirements or not. Because if God only wrote the moral law in our hearts, than all other laws should be of no interest. If we keep the law of clean and unclean meat, this would make us come under the law again, under the yoke of slavery.

In His love

James S.

James, yes, God writes His law upon the heart and mind of NT believers, and the Holy Spirit empowers them to live in harmony with its principles. I believe this is true of Jews and Gentiles alike, for there is no difference between them in the NT. In Christ, they stand on common ground.

Galatians
3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

No, we shouldn't go around freaked out and focused on the law. Anything that puts Jesus in the back seat is wrong. But the law, as expressed in the example of Jesus, is the standard by which we are judged in judgment. So, we must be aware of it, we must know its requirements, we must be familiar with its demands, because ignorance is no excuse in judgment.

Does God expect us to obey the diet and health laws? Common sense tells us that to ignore them is to invite disease and an untimely death. Why would anyone want to choose a lifestyle that robs them of life and vitality? Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so why wouldn't we want to provide Him the best dwelling place possible? There is a warning against defiling our temple.

1 Corinthians
3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Mike.

The law for me serve as a mirror, it reflect images.
I look at the law to see what sin is, to know what sin is. But since the bible told me that I am not under its jurisdiction and judgment, I believe that the Ten Commandment has no authority over me, but serve as a sensor of sin, without any judgment that lead to condemnation. The law remind me when I sinned and brought my mind back to Jesus for repentance, that is the only purpose the law remain in existence for Christ believers. “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law.” – Romans 3:31.

“Christ came, to redeem those (Israel) who were under the law, that we (Gentiles believers) might receive the ADOPTION of son” – Galatians 4:5.

Very clear! Gentiles believers are not asked to come under the law’s jurisdiction, which would make the law the focus of our life. We are asked to come under the grace of God, where Christ would be the focus in our life.

If Christ perfectly keep and obey the law, because he was a Jew and live under the law, he must prove the world that he is God in human’s body, for only him that could keep and obey his own holy and righteous law and fulfills it’s demands where no man can. He must prove that God is right and just, giving men his holy and righteous law as a way of salvation that only resulted in condemnation, to justify his killing, in his effort to eliminate sin and sinners forever.

To be like Christ, to imitate his righteousness I think is not trying to keep and obey the law perfectly, to accept and believe that the law has authority over us and would be the standard of judgment and righteousness, not focusing on the law, but to let him work in us, purifying the soul, recreating the image of God.

We know that unless we are recreated in the image of God, unless the unselfish love of God ruled in our heart, there is no place for us in heaven. Therefore, the Ten Commandment say: “Do not covet”, which mean be unselfish, which need a new heart, received at the miracle of rebirth.

Maybe the law plays a part in the judgment, but don’t think about it, and don’t worry, for even there is no law, but our deeds fulfils the intend of the law, for it were all fruits of the Spirit.

Anyway, aren’t the bible said that we are justified by faith without the deeds of the law? If you don’t believe this, read Romans 3:28.

In His love

James S

That’s right, James, at least, that’s what I believe too. The law does not condemn us if we are living in harmony with its precepts and principles. It has no authority to condemn us if we are obedient, if we are abiding in Jesus. Thus, we are never more than one sin away from falling under its authority and jurisdiction and condemnation.

But the law not only condemns, it also condones. As the standard of right and wrong, good and evil, it is used in judgment to determine who is saved and who is lost. The law is an unbiased tool that God uses in judgment to determine our eternal destiny, for weal or for woe. In the hands of our loving and merciful heavenly Father, the law serves to establish the truth, whether we deserve life or death.

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Anyway, aren’t the bible said that we are justified by faith without the deeds of the law?

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Yes, the Bible does say that we are justified by faith without the deeds of the law, which you and I both believe means that we cannot work our way to heaven by keeping the law in our own unaided strength. The law is our friend in judgment. It serves to verify and validate our faith and good works, that we were connected to Christ. Without the law, it would be God’s word against Satan’s.