In Numbers it says that God sent fiery snakes upon the Israelites. If someone explained this passage to mean that God removed His protection, and the snakes were always there the whole time, someone else might object that this would be making the passage to say something it isn't really saying.

yes, and rightly so without biblical proof that is what happened.

we would have to lead off with the texts of Gods protection as well as the examples of when He leaves us to the consequences of our actions if we insist on removing ourselves from His protection.

but what texts in this thread have been "forced" to say other than exactly what they say?

it seems that is where the "new heart" comes in.
so that


we then get

but the righteous are unconscious of having done anything for the Lord



not knowing and studying Gods true character could lead us to

all in the name of God.

I think Dedication's comment was a general one; it wasn't targeting any specific application of a text on this thread, I don't think.

Regarding your next post, I agree. The deception at the end involves, above all else, not knowing God's true character.

Knowing the outcome does not preprogram it, nor lessen the conflicting battles leading up to it.

It just KNOWS what it will be.

If God's omniscience doesn't KNOW the outcome, but knows only the probabilities, then can we be sure God will win in the final battle against sin at the end of the 1000 years, or is satan's idea that he, with the countless millions of lost can dethrone God and take over the city a possibility?


Do we lessen God's omniscience to reduce it to our logic?

Basically, as I see it, what you said above is that God can't REALLY SEE the future, (as in not being locked in time but actually SEE the future) but that He only knows the probabilities of what the outcome will be.

Which means there's no risk involved. Again, consider insider trading laws. Why is it illegal to buy/sell stocks if you have inside information? Because, in this case, your level of risk is not the same as others. Why? Because you have knoweldge of the outcome that others have. More knowledge means less risk. Perfect knowledge would mean zero risk, assuming the fixed future scenario (i.e. God sees only one future result, that which will happen).



Sure we can be sure! Think of a chessmaster who has a winning position. He may not know what the specific moves will be that will lead up to his checkmating the opposition, but he can be 100% sure that with perfect play, the game is won. God, of course, doesn't make mistakes, so He can be 100% the "game is won," even though the details haven't yet been determined.



This question doesn't seem to make sense. Would you rephrase it?



No, this isn't the issue. God can see the future perfectly, but the future is not fixed. It is yet to be determined, which is just what God sees, a non-determined future.

If you'd like to discuss this future, please start a new thread. Or, if you'd prefer that I do, I will, just let me know.

Thanks.

If sin and righteousness are opposites, what, then, did Jesus mean in His unprofitable servant parables?

Also, if not sinning constitutes righteousness, how do we define righteousness? How do we define what Jesus revealed and demonstrated while He was here?

i came across this last night:

Righteousness is holiness, likeness to God, and "God is love." 1 John 4:16. It is conformity to the law of God, for "all Thy commandments are righteousness" (Psalm 119:172), and "love is the fulfilling of the law" (Romans 13:10). Righteousness is love, and love is the light and the life of God. The righteousness of God is embodied in Christ. We receive righteousness by receiving Him. {MB 18.1}

and that makes sense if we understand what sin is

The church is made up of persons of different temperaments and of various dispositions; they have come from different denominations; for the Cleaver of truth has separated one here and one there from the great quarry of the world, and in the church of Christ all these various members must be cemented together by the Spirit of God. If the love of Christ is in the hearts of the members of the church, through the abundant grace of Christ, there will be oneness, unity, among brethren. We must close the door of the heart to every suggestion that shall have the least tendency toward keeping us from this state of harmony. We must not hamper the soul and cripple its powers by the indulgence of selfishness. Selfishness is sin, and it grieves away the Spirit of Christ. When we cherish unkind thoughts, and harbor suspicions against our brethren, we are cutting ourselves off from the channel of God's light and love. Jealousy is as cruel as the grave, and should never be cherished in the heart, much less expressed in the actions. How cruel it is to cherish evil surmising against those who are members of Christ's body! Accusation, condemnation, and revenge are all of Satanic origin, and evil thoughts of others should be at once rejected from the mind, for these things repulse, and separate the hearts of brethren. Satan rejoices when he can create division in the church of God; for weakness follows, and the things that remain are ready to die. {ST, April 13, 1891 par. 3}

Many things are registered as sins in the book of heaven which men do not call sin. Selfishness and covetousness are at the foundation of all sins, and yet many are not convicted of the sin of selfishness, because it is a part of their nature, and they do not listen to the reprovings of the Holy Spirit. They judge their brethren, thinking to remove a mote from their brother's eye, when they have a beam in their own eye which must be removed before they can see clearly to extract the mote from their brother's eye. The work of correcting our fellow men, and especially of correcting our brethren in the faith, is a work that requires wisdom from God. It requires a growing experience in spiritual things in order that spiritual things may be called by their right name. The Lord has not placed any man on the judgment seat to judge his brother and to define the character of his sin. {13MR 270.3}

Teresaq, I agree that selfishness and unselfishness are opposites, however, I disagree that the absence of one is the presence of the other. We are not being like Jesus simply because we are not being like Satan. Just because big brother doesn't punch little brother in the nose it doesn't mean he is being Christlike. The opposite of love is indifference not hate. To be like Jesus requires the death of self and a rebirth in the likeness of sweet Jesus. Two different dynamics must play out - 1) Self must die, and 2) rebirth must happen. These two things are not opposites; instead, they are two totally different things that must happen to be like Jesus.

The absence of one *is* the presence of the other. It has to be. All there is in the world is good and evil. To the extent one is not one, one is the other.

To the extent that we are not like Christ, we are like Satan. That's rather depressing, perhaps, but that's the way it is.

Recognizing this should lead us to cry out, like Ellen White mentioned she did, "Nearer my God to Thee, nearer to Thee."



Right, which also means it doesn't necessarily mean he's being unlike Satan.