MR No. 1081 - God's Protecting Power Removed From Those Who Refuse His Warnings

(Written August 8, 1883, to Elder and Mrs. Uriah Smith, from Healdsburg, California.)


I received Brother Smith's letter which related some particulars in regard to the death of Brother Stone, and the circumstances connected with his death were read by us in the papers. {14MR 1.1}

I felt sad indeed, for I had no evidence that Elder Stone was prepared for this change. I have been reading the testimony given for him and William Gage and have felt very, very sad. But I leave him in the hands of God. I have no evidence he acted upon the light given. {14MR 1.2}

I was shown in the vision given me of the Judgment, that God would send warnings, counsels, and reproof. Some would take heed to their ways and seek the Lord, while some would follow their own judgment because it was more convenient and pleasing to their own natural hearts to do so, [and] while some others would kick against the pricks, rise up against the testimonies of reproof, despise the warnings, choose their own wisdom, be ensnared and overcome by the enemy, and so blinded by his infatuations [that] they would be utterly unable to discern the things of God and would work directly against the light, enshrouding themselves in darkness and error. Then these very ones would sustain and strengthen the hands of our bitterest enemies. {14MR 1.3}

Some who had, like Elder Stone, had but little moral power, but little strength to resist temptation, would for a time feel the force of warnings and see his condition; but his traits of character were such that unless transformed, he would be no help to God's people, no benefit to the young. His influence would be to break down the barriers, to unite with pleasure lovers, and become tainted and polluted by lax morals. {14MR 2.1}

He might become a man of excellent ability if he had a vital connection with God. He had superior talents which had not been employed to the advancement of the work and cause of God, because he loved ease and self-indulgence better than he loved self-denial and the cross of Christ. {14MR 2.2}

I was shown that the time was in the near future that these whom God had warned and reproved and given great light but they would not correct their ways and follow the light, He would remove from them that heavenly protection which had preserved them from Satan's cruel power; the Lord would surely leave them to themselves to follow the judgment and counsels of their own wisdom; they would be simply left to themselves, and the protection of God be withdrawn from them, and they would not be shielded from the workings of Satan; that none of finite judgment and foresight can have any power to conceive of the care God has exercised through His angels over the children of men in their travels, in their own houses, in their eating and drinking. Wherever they are, His eye is upon them. They are preserved from a thousand dangers, all to them unseen. Satan has laid snares, but the Lord is constantly at work to save His people from them. {14MR 2.3}

But [from] those who have no sense of the goodness and mercy of God, [those] who refuse His merciful warnings, who reject His counsels to reach the highest standard of Bible requirements, who do despite to the Spirit of grace, the Lord would remove His protecting power. I was shown that Satan would entangle and then destroy, if he could, the souls he had tempted. God will bear long, but there is a bound to His mercy, a line which marks His mercy and His justice. {14MR 2.4}

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. [SEE ALSO THE GREAT CONTROVERSY, P. 614, WHERE ELLEN WHITE STATES, "A SINGLE ANGEL DESTROYED ALL THE FIRST-BORN OF THE EGYPTIANS AND FILLED THE LAND WITH MOURNING. WHEN DAVID OFFENDED AGAINST GOD BY NUMBERING THE PEOPLE, ONE ANGEL CAUSED THAT TERRIBLE DESTRUCTION BY WHICH HIS SIN WAS PUNISHED. THE SAME DESTRUCTIVE POWER EXERCISED BY HOLY ANGELS WHEN GOD COMMANDS, WILL BE EXERCISED BY EVIL ANGELS WHEN HE PERMITS."] It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of. {14MR 3.1}
[Manuscript Releases Volume Fourteen [Nos. 1081-1135] (1990)]

Tom, please consider the following insight:

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. {LDE 241}

t: this is strange wording, mm. have you noticed that? it doesnt make sense in the context.

But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?

From the EGW quotes that have been posted here and elsewhere, we see God's angels doing His bidding and consequently doing their destructive work, and we see where God permits the devil and his fallen angels to do their destructive work.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but it makes perfect sense to me. Tom has been making this point very eloquently for the last several years now on this forum. God is not willing that any should be lost without just cause. He is doing everything in His power to protect sinners from the deadly consequences of sinning. He regularly acts arbitrarily and supernaturally to protect us.

However, there is a limit to divine mercy and forbearance, a point beyond which God cannot continue to turn the other cheek without aiding and abetting sinners in their sin and jeopardizing the security of the Universe. "He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man." God is not bound by the same rules and laws that govern us. "Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world."

Tom,

You have been working under a misunderstanding of the concept of "compel." We do not "compel" someone to die. We kill them. Now, we might "compel" someone to act against his or her will. That is what "compel" means.

David did not compel Goliath to hurl mocking insults at God. Nor did God do this. However, Goliath's mocking compelled God to act...for His honor.

Here is what it means to compel:

compel: To force, constrain or coerce; To exact or produce by force; To overpower; to subdue

God does not force our will. He does not take our will from us by force. He never removes from us the freedom of choice which He has given us and guarded for us at the cost of Jesus' life. Following the proper definition of "compel," which is a word tied to our freedom of choice, I can fully agree that God does not do this.

However, following an improper definition of "compel," any number of accusations could be aimed at God for doing just this. For example, one might say that God compels or forces people against their will to:

--have no wings for flying
--stay in our solar system
--die instead of living forever
--have no gills for water sport
--be born blind
--endure the curse of thorns and thistles

etc.

The fact is, upon these points, God has not given us a choice. We cannot choose our parents. We cannot choose to have been born on a different planet. We cannot choose to sprout wings and fly. Does any of this mean God has coerced us? forced us? used "compelling power?" Of course not.

Goliath's destiny and fate were determined by his own un-compelled actions. Nor did God compel David to act in slaying Goliath. But God was certainly honored when David obeyed His voice in carrying out justice upon the heathen mocker.

God's plagues are not compelling anyone to choose anything against their wills. In fact, they are sent only to bring justice for the choices which have already been made by them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Perhaps, but evidently not at the White Estate during the time the Manuscript Release series was put together, e.g. circa 1990. See editorial comments below in this oft-quoted statement here.

Would you like to clarify your meaning here?

what do you consider force and violence?

M: Tom, please consider the following insight:

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. {LDE 241}

t: this is strange wording, mm. have you noticed that? it doesnt make sense in the context.

But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?

M: Yeah, I see what you're saying, but it makes perfect sense to me. Tom has been making this point very eloquently for the last several years now on this forum. God is not willing that any should be lost without just cause. He is doing everything in His power to protect sinners from the deadly consequences of sinning. He regularly acts arbitrarily and supernaturally to protect us.

However, there is a limit to divine mercy and forbearance, a point beyond which God cannot continue to turn the other cheek without aiding and abetting sinners in their sin and jeopardizing the security of the Universe. "He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man." God is not bound by the same rules and laws that govern us. "Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world."

t: leaving "toms beliefs" out of this because they are not relevant to the point....

t: you didnt notice the significance of the wording in bold red?

Men flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the transgressor. But in the light of Bible history it is evident that God's goodness and His love engage Him to deal with sin as an evil fatal to the peace and happiness of the universe. {PP 420.2}

Very few realize the sinfulness of sin; they flatter themselves that God is too good to punish the offender. But the cases of Miriam, Aaron, David, and many others show that it is not a safe thing to sin against God in deed, in word, or even in thought. God is a being of infinite love and compassion, but He also declares Himself to be a "consuming fire, even a jealous God" {3BC 1166.2}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}

God delights in mercy, and He manifests His compassion before He inflicts His judgments. He teaches Israel to spare the people of Edom, before requiring them to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan. {PP 423.2}

He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}

The lightest punishment that a merciful God could inflict upon so rebellious a people was submission to the rule of Babylon, but if they warred against this decree of servitude they were to feel the full vigor of His chastisement. {PK 443.2}

God reads the purposes and intents of the hearts, and tries the motives of the children of men. His signal, visible displeasure may not be manifested as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira, yet in the end the punishment will in no case be lighter than that which was inflicted upon them. In trying to deceive men, they were lying to God. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." {CS 334.3}

Those who have had great light and have disregarded it stand in a worse position than those who have not been given so many advantages. They exalt themselves but not the Lord. The punishment inflicted on human beings will in every case be proportionate to the dishonor they have brought on God. {LDE 217.3}

The statutes and judgments given of God were good for the obedient. "They should live in them." But they were not good for the transgressor, for in the civil law given to Moses punishment was to be inflicted on the transgressor, that others should be restrained by fear. {3SG 301.1}