We must study the truth for ourselves. No living man should be relied upon to think for us. No matter who it is, or in what position he may be placed, we are not to look upon any man as a perfect criterion for us. We are to counsel together, and to be subject to the same time we are to exercise the ability God has given us to learn what is truth. Each one of us must look to God for divine enlightenment. We must individually develop a character that will stand the test in the day of God. We must not become set in our ideas, and think that no one should interfere with our opinions.--Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. {CW 45.1}

I wish to point out once again the importance of proper diligence when developing doctrines from the Bible or from Mrs. White. There has been a doctrine brought out here on the basis of this quote that God removes His protection, allowing the devil to exert his power. This doctrine restricts the activity which can be attributed to God, and changes its form to that of a more passive approach.

On the contrary, I believe God is actively opposed to sin, and active in His approach and manner toward dealing with it.

There may be no single principle of proper textual study more important than that of careful attention to context.

Context, context, CONTEXT!

Theology students are taught that context is their most important tool when meeting questions on the more difficult texts of scripture. Context is also key in understanding Mrs. White's messages.

I like compilations from Mrs. White's writings. They do a lot of good in bringing together key passages in a topical format. However, they have a major drawback. MAJOR. Sometimes, the statements can be made to appear to say something far from the truth when stripped of their context. It is important, then, that the careful student look up those statements in their original form before building a doctrine upon them.

Such is the case with this oft-quoted statement. Below is the quote in full from the beginning of the statement down to the statement so often quoted here. Read it carefully. You will notice that it is applied to a particular class of people, and cannot be over-generalized to include everyone.



After reading this statement, it is clear to me that Ellen White is addressing a particular class of privileged people who are well acquainted with the knowledge of God and of His blessings. Further, the statement is conditional. If these people place themselves on the devil's ground, THEN, and only then, does God remove His protection from them, which in turn permits Satan to do his destructive deeds.

This statement never addresses other classes of people. Nor did Mrs. White put this statement into any of her major writings. This was a private letter, dealing most especially with a particular Mr. Stone who had recently deceased, sent to Uriah Smith and his wife.

I wish to point out once again the importance of proper diligence when developing doctrines from the Bible or from Mrs. White. There has been a doctrine brought out here on the basis of this quote that God removes His protection, allowing the devil to exert his power. This doctrine restricts the activity which can be attributed to God, and changes its form to that of a more passive approach.

On the contrary, I believe God is actively opposed to sin, and active in His approach and manner toward dealing with it.

There may be no single principle of proper textual study more important than that of careful attention to context.

Context, context, CONTEXT!

Theology students are taught that context is their most important tool when meeting questions on the more difficult texts of scripture. Context is also key in understanding Mrs. White's messages. ....



After reading this statement, it is clear to me that Ellen White is addressing a particular class of privileged people who are well acquainted with the knowledge of God and of His blessings. Further, the statement is conditional. If these people place themselves on the devil's ground, THEN, and only then, does God remove His protection from them, which in turn permits Satan to do his destructive deeds.

This statement never addresses other classes of people. Nor did Mrs. White put this statement into any of her major writings. This was a private letter, dealing most especially with a particular Mr. Stone who had recently deceased, sent to Uriah Smith and his wife.

Not true?

It seems to be true at least some of the time.

Exo 20:5..., visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Let's change this a bit to make it more consistent:



Would you agree with this statement?

M: Tom, I was thinking about what you said about the forces of nature. You seem to think God must work supernaturally to arbitrarily prevent the forces of nature from causing universal devastation and mass extinction.

T: No, this is your idea. Or, rather, your idea of what I've said. I've not said this, or anything like this. What I've said is that God manages nature, that nature is not self-acting (and quoted the same quotes you later quoted back to me). The point is that if God withdraws from this work, bad things are liable to happen.

T: Consider the pilot of a complicated piece of machinery, like a 747 or the Shuttle. What would happen if the pilot "withdrew"?

M: This idea, however, seems to assume that the forces of nature are self-acting, that they would behave a certain, predictable way if God did not intervene and prevent it.

T: ??? No, they're NOT self-acting, which is why God must manage them.

M: However, based on what I've read, it is clear to me that the forces of nature are totally dependent on God, that nothing in nature is self-acting or capable of doing anything independent of God. Whatever happens in nature happens because God makes it happen.

T: No, not at all. That's Augustine again. There's a difference between managing and micro-managing, I guess is one way of putting it. It's true that nature is governed by laws which God created, and true that God manages nature, but it's not true that if a tornado happens, or any other natural disaster, that God made that happen.

M: For example, rivers flow downhill because God makes them flow downhill. In other words, God did not make water and gravity in such a way that rivers flow downhill without further help from Him.

Nothing is self-acting. Every atom, every molecule in nature behaves the way they do because God makes them behave that way. This is true of natural disasters as well as when the forces of nature function normally. For example, the Flood was not the result of God letting go and allowing the forces of nature to wreak havoc. The forces of nature do not possess the ability to do anything on their own. They are totally dependent on God to function normally and sustain life or to function abnormally and destroy life.

T: MM, are you familiar with chaos theory? Or quantum physics?

T:No, not at all. That's Augustine again. There's a difference between managing and micro-managing, I guess is one way of putting it.

It's true that nature is governed by laws which God created, and true that God manages nature, but it's not true that if a tornado happens, or any other natural disaster, that God made that happen.

GC: Not true?

T: No, it's not true. In order for the above to be a true statement, it would need to be the case that God caused the tornado to happen every single time there was a tornado.

GC: It seems to be true at least some of the time.

T: Again, in order for MM's statement to be true, it would have to be the case *all* of the time, not just some of the time. Also, you're assuming that a judgment means God is making something happen, but:

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of.(14 MR 3)

The depths of the earth are the Lord's arsenal, whence were drawn weapons to be employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters gushing from the earth united with the waters from heaven to accomplish the work of desolation. Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. These judgments are sent that those who lightly regard God's law and trample upon His authority may be led to tremble before His power and to confess His just sovereignty. As men have beheld burning mountains pouring forth fire and flames and torrents of melted ore, drying up rivers, overwhelming populous cities, and everywhere spreading ruin and desolation, the stoutest heart has been filled with terror and infidels and blasphemers have been constrained to acknowledge the infinite power of God. {PP 109.1}

The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from Heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {3SG 82.2}

In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from Heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. {3SG 82.3}

In dwelling upon the laws of matter and the laws of nature, many lose sight of, if they do not deny, the continual and direct agency of God. They convey the idea that nature acts independently of God, having in and of itself its own limits and its own powers wherewith to work. In their minds there is a marked distinction between the natural and the supernatural. The natural is ascribed to ordinary causes, unconnected with the power of God. Vital power is attributed to matter, and nature is made a deity. It is supposed that matter is placed in certain relations and left to act from fixed laws with which God Himself cannot interfere; that nature is endowed with certain properties and placed subject to laws, and is then left to itself to obey these laws and perform the work originally commanded. {8T 259.2}

This is false science; there is nothing in the word of God to sustain it. God does not annul His laws, but He is continually working through them, using them as His instruments. They are not self-working. God is perpetually at work in nature. She is His servant, directed as He pleases. Nature in her work testifies of the intelligent presence and active agency of a being who moves in all His works according to His will. It is not by an original power inherent in nature that year by year the earth yields its bounties and continues its march around the sun. The hand of infinite power is perpetually at work guiding this planet. It is God's power momentarily exercised that keeps it in position in its rotation. {8T 259.3}

The God of heaven is constantly at work. It is by His power that vegetation is caused to flourish, that every leaf appears and every flower blooms. Every drop of rain or flake of snow, every spire of grass, every leaf and flower and shrub, testifies of God. These little things so common around us teach the lesson that nothing is beneath the notice of the infinite God, nothing is too small for His attention. {8T 260.1}

The mechanism of the human body cannot be fully understood; it presents mysteries that baffle the most intelligent. It is not as the result of a mechanism, which, once set in motion, continues its work, that the pulse beats and breath follows breath. In God we live and move and have our being. Every breath, every throb of the heart, is a continual evidence of the power of an ever-present God. {8T 260.2}

It is God that causes the sun to rise in the heavens. He opens the windows of heaven and gives rain. He causes the grass to grow upon the mountains. "He giveth snow like wool: He scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes." "When He uttereth His voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; . . . He maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of His treasures." Psalm 147:16; Jeremiah 10:13. {8T 260.3}

The Lord is constantly employed in upholding and using as His servants the things that He has made. Said Christ: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17. {8T 260.4}

The Lord is regarded as cruel by many in requiring His people to make war with other nations. They say that it is contrary to His benevolent character. But He who made the world, and formed man to dwell upon the earth, has unlimited control over all the works of His hands, and it is His right to do as He pleases, and what He pleases with the work of His hands. Man has no right to say to his Maker, Why doest Thou thus? There is no injustice in His character. . . God has borne with them until they filled up the measure of their iniquity, and then He has brought upon them swift destruction. He has used His people as instruments of His wrath, to punish wicked nations, who have vexed them, and seduced them into idolatry. {2SM 333.1}

God is perpetually at work in nature. She is His servant, directed as He pleases. Nature in her work testifies of the intelligent presence and active agency of a Being who moves in all His works according to His will. It is not by an original power inherent in nature that year by year the earth produces its bounties and the world keeps up its continual march around the sun. The hand of infinite power is perpetually at work guiding this planet. It is God's power momentarily exercised that keeps it in position in its rotations. {6BC 1062.5}

The God of heaven is constantly at work. It is by His power that vegetation is caused to flourish, that every leaf appears and every flower blooms. It is not as the result of a mechanism, that, once set in motion, continues its work, that the pulse beats and breath follows breath. In God we live and move and have our being. Every breath, every throb of the heart, is the continual evidence of the power of an ever-present God. {6BC 1062.5}

It is God that maketh the sun to rise in the heavens. He openeth the windows of heaven and giveth rain. He maketh the grass to grow upon the mountains. "He giveth snow like wool: and scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes." "When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, . . . he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures." Although the Lord has ceased His work in creating, He is constantly employed in upholding and using as His servants the things which He has made. Said Christ, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work". {6BC 1062.5}

M:Given these insights, it is difficult to believe the forecs of nature can act independently of God and cause death and destruction.

Tom:King Neb attempted to use force and violence to motivate people to comply with his will. Stalin and Hitler resorted to similar tactics. God, however, has never employed force or violence to compel or coerce people to comply with His will.

Would you agree with this statement?

MM:I agree.

T: No, this is your idea. Or, rather, your idea of what I've said. I've not said this, or anything like this. What I've said is that God manages nature, that nature is not self-acting (and quoted the same quotes you later quoted back to me). The point is that if God withdraws from this work, bad things are liable to happen.

M:Are you suggesting you in no way believe God must work supernaturally to arbitrarily prevent the forces of nature from causing universal devastation and mass extinction?

If so, why do you think bad things are “liable” to happen if God were to stop managing the forces of nature?

Also, by using the word “liable” are you implying it is possible nothing bad might happen?

EGW:It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of.

Tom, it is true that when sinners fill their cup of woe and wrath that God sometimes withdraws and protection and gives them over to Satan to do with them as he pleases, that is, within the limits established and enforced by God.

The quote you posted above is an excellent example. But God doesn't always work in this manner. There are times He takes matters into His own hands. The Flood is an example.