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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: Rosangela]
#118134
08/25/09 03:55 PM
08/25/09 03:55 PM
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OP
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i realize you are trying to bring "balance" but i think studying His life would do that. He did not fail nor become discouraged.
He lived above these difficulties, as if in the light of God's countenance. these statements, seem to me, to be what should be highlighted. even tho we claim to be christian we are all at different levels or stages of understanding, we all have limited vision, when it comes to the character of God, and so fail in our treatment of our fellowman, not to mention everything else. knowing how Jesus reacted, once we get over the "i dont want to do that" mentality, and how, can really help. so, was Jesus weak for turning the other cheek, or did He know something we dont?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: teresaq]
#118158
08/25/09 07:47 PM
08/25/09 07:47 PM
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M: Why would you limit it to Jesus' life here on earth? Ellen White taught that we should study Jesus' example in both the OT and the NT. She wrote, "All that man needs to know and can know of God has been revealed in [1] His Word and in [2] the life of His Son, the great Teacher." {6BC 1079.9}
T: [See Bible quotes below]:
Mat 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled. Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? Mar 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Act 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Teresa, you appear to be agreeing with me. If so, then I'd say a celebration is in order.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#118160
08/25/09 08:04 PM
08/25/09 08:04 PM
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we are agreeing that the scriptures, start to finish, testified of a Savior from our predicament?
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#118226
08/27/09 03:30 AM
08/27/09 03:30 AM
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did you know that there are only two fragments of the manuscript that that came from, at least that i know of?
in its context she is referring to kelloggs living temples pantheism.
she was stressing that God has "personality" which means that He has a form, a real solid Being, in Whose physical image we were created.
the two fragments: Human talent and human conjecture have tried by searching to find out God. But guesswork has proved itself to be guesswork. Man cannot by searching find out God. This problem has not been given to human beings. All that man needs to know and can know of God has been revealed in His Word and in the life of His Son, the great Teacher. {6BC 1079.9} Let men remember that they have a Ruler in the heavens, a God who will not be trifled with. He who puts his reason to the stretch in an effort to exalt himself and to delineate God, will find that he might far better have stood as a humble suppliant before God, confessing himself to be only an erring human being. {6BC 1079.10} God cannot be understood by men. His ways and works are past finding out. In regard to the revelations that He has made of Himself in His Word, we may talk, but other than this, let us say of Him, Thou art God, and Thy ways are past finding out. {6BC 1079.11} There is a knowledge of God and of Christ which all who are saved must have. "This is life eternal," Christ said, "that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." {6BC 1079.12} The question for us to study is, What is truth--the truth for this time, which is to be cherished, loved, honored, and obeyed? The devotees of science have been defeated and disheartened in their effort to find out God. What they need to inquire is, What is truth (MS 124, 1903)? {6BC 1079.13}
The seventeenth chapter of John speaks plainly regarding the personality of God and of Christ, and of their relation to each other. "Father, the hour is come," Christ said: "glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee." [John 17:23, 3, 5-11 quoted.] Here is personality, and individuality (MS 124, 1903). {5BC 1145.10}
testimonies 8 devotes many, many, pages to the subject. kellogg became a trinitarian. trinitarianism supports spiritualism in all its forms. it denies that the Father has a form, "body and parts".
so, yes, in that regard, the ot, as well as Jesus, point out quite clearly that the Father, as well as the Son, possibly the Holy Spirit, definitely have "personality", form, "body and parts". we arent given much info on the Holy Spirit, and according to the statements above we are not to speculate.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: teresaq]
#118253
08/27/09 04:40 PM
08/27/09 04:40 PM
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Teresa, thank you for sharing. Yes, I knew Ellen White was arguing against panhteism. But, do you think the following insight refers to more than the mere fact God is physical Being? "All that man needs to know and can know of God has been revealed in [1] His Word and in [2] the life of His Son, the great Teacher." {6BC 1079.9}
PS - The following insights clearly say the Holy Spirit is as much a person as the Father is:
We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds. --Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}
The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . . {Ev 616.6}
The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#118284
08/27/09 09:52 PM
08/27/09 09:52 PM
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Teresa, thank you for sharing. Yes, I knew Ellen White was arguing against panhteism. But, do you think the following insight refers to more than the mere fact God is physical Being? "All that man needs to know and can know of God has been revealed in [1] His Word and in [2] the life of His Son, the great Teacher." {6BC 1079.9} i think ellen white added the extra two words in this instance to deal with the pantheism issue. if you wish to add it to her other statements in other contexts that is your perogative.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: teresaq]
#118309
08/28/09 02:43 PM
08/28/09 02:43 PM
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i think ellen white added the extra two words in this instance to deal with the pantheism issue. if you wish to add it to her other statements in other contexts that is your perogative. "All that man needs to know and can know of God has been revealed in [1] His Word and in [2] the life of His Son, the great Teacher." {6BC 1079.9} So, yes, you believe this statement is limited to the pantheism issue. Thank you for answering my question.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#118341
08/29/09 01:32 AM
08/29/09 01:32 AM
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MM, she also said elsewhere that all that can be known of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son. So what we learn of God in Scripture was revealed in the life and character of His Son? Do you understand this? I'll try to illustrate by an example.
Say in one place she wrote, all that can be known about something (say "thing 1") was revealed by X and Y, and elsewhere she wrote, "All that can be known about thing 1 was revealed by X." This means that
1.All that can be known about thing 1 was revealed by X. 2.All that can be known about thing 1 was revealed by X and Y.
From this, by simple logic (which I hope makes sense to you) we can conclude that there may be things about thing 1 which X revealed but Y did not, but there cannot be anything that Y revealed about thing 1 that X did not.
So, in terms of the EGW quotes, it is a true statement that everything that can be known of God was revealed in the union of 1)the live and character of Jesus Christ in His humanity and 2)Scripture. It's also a true statement that everything that can be known of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus Christ in His humanity.
I hope you can follow this. The key point is that, based the the EGW statements, there's nothing revealed about God in Scripture that was not revealed in the life and character of His Son in His humanity.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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